Pierce.Reid

Terry, If TMG finds more than one marriage, and every marriage has a sort date, then TMG knows the order and can identify the sequence in a Journal report. If one marriage is missing a sort date, then TMG obviously can not be sure the order of that marriage, and should not make assumptions. The purpose of sort dates is to tell TMG the order that information is to be reported. Of course, even the human entering the data cannot be sure that there is a marriage for which no evidence has been found, and if the user wants TMG to be really cautious, a report option should allow marriage sequence numbers to be omitted, as it does now. (But then, most of the information in our data bases is not absolutely 100% certain - did the mother lie when registering a birth? could there be two people with about the same age with the same unusual name? etc. I think many of us have found primary official records that had some significant error. But we still want TMG to report what we have found.) Pierce

Terry's method will work, but does require special coding for each case of multiple marriages. If TMG indicated the marriage number automatically, we could guess at an order, using the sort dates, if we did not have a specific marriage date. For individuals where we have actual marriage dates (even if just a year), we would not have to do anything to get the marriage number. And if the user has not put in even a sort date for a marriage, suppress the marriage number, as TMG does now. (I know Bob does not like TMG guessing at missing information.) Pierce

This, and other suggestions for recording census citations, provide quite formal references to census data. But to what extent is this detail necessary? The purpose of a source record and a citation is to make it clear where your information came from, and to make it easy for others to verify the source you used. Census records have become easy to access, through the internet, at national archives, and through the LDS Family History Library and Centers. Which repository you used is really not important, and someone wanting to verify your data will choose whichever one is best for them. Each census archive has developed their own method of indexing the census pages. The only real information a reader needs is that archive's index references to the page (not the individuals on the page). That data can be used to find the document image in any repository. With the on-line census data bases, I have been able to get many census images and found out a lot about my distant relatives. I spend my time updating my genealogy data, and keep my source references informal and simple - just a footnote on the census tag and references to the census where I have derived other information (such as birth date/place, names, etc., e.g. "Age 40 on 1880 census"). In the census tag, I not only link all members of the household to appropriate roles in the tag, but I also include index entries in the memo fields, which will be used to create a document index with the journal report eventually gets to a word processor. So either on the computer or in a printed journal report I can find the census description for any data field that census record provided. I also note any significant errors I think are in the census itself or in the indexing by an only repository, e.g. Ancestry. I know this is not up to the standards of Elizabeth Shown Mills and others, but I think the important thing is to include the information others would need to find the document I used. I would be interested in what problems others might find with my technique. Pierce

Another trick that often (but not always) helps you read small text is to hold the Ctrl key while rotating the scroll wheel on your mouse (if you have a scroll wheel). This allows you to increase or decrease the displayed size of the text. Note that you have to have the mouse pointer in the selected window for this to work. If you are creating a word processing document, only the display size is changed, not the font size of any of the text within the window (i.e. it won't affect the size of the text when the document is printed). Pierce

I agree with Terry's suggestion that the best way to update your data base from a GEDCOM is manually. Otherwise you are likely to create inconsistencies in your data and your style. The manual entry also gives you a better insight into the data you are adding. I think it would be very reasonable to put the GEDCOM into a separate data set, both to view the information and possibly copy-and-paste parts that you agree with. I also recommend saving the indexed information Ancestry provides. I simply copy the text part of Individual Record, usually of the Head, to a Notepad window. I also "View others on this page" to get the index entries for others in the family, and copy them to the same window. I then save this file for reference when typing in the census detail. In some cases, I copy parts of the file (e.g. long, unusual place names) into my data base. I also have all the information I need for my citation. The index information is really another pair of eyes trying to decipher the census taker's handwriting. The indexer may be working on a better image than you get, or may be more familiar with the census taker's style. On the other hand, you may know your family names better than the indexer and you can see that the name as written could just as easily be the name you are familiar with. I record the data as I read it on the census, noting where I think the census taker made a mistake. If the Ancestry index is not correct, whether because of the census taker or the indexer misreading the image, I note the error in my citation. Ancestry is a wonderful source of family history information but you need to learn how to make the best use of it. Pierce

Pat, I have little faith in my ability to type exactly what I see in a report onto my data base. I therefore use a copy and paste process whenever possible. Keep you little finger on the left Ctrl key and use your forefinger on the "C" (for "Copy") and the "V" (for "Paste"). User your right hand on the mouse to select or block the text you want to copy/paste. Have your spreadsheet in one window and TMG in another and use "Alt-Tab" to switch between the two. If possible, size the widows so you can see the desired fields in both windows to minimize scrolling. (This may not be quite so easy if you are left handed.) This may be a tedious operation, but you should be able to get into a rhythm that will make it go a bit faster than retyping. It will also reduce typing errors, which can be a problem to find and correct. Pierce

Another thought: - The TMG term "witness" is a bit misleading. It implies the person actually was at the event in question. A more useful term might be the concept of "role", introduced, more or less, from Ultimate Family Tree. In this case, the father definitely had a role to play, even if he was no where near the birth, or even alive at the time. That could also apply to a Probate event, where beneficiaries did nothing more than get mentioned in the will and maybe received some benefit - in fact the "principal" was not even alive at the time. Pierce

Teresa commented on another thread: <<I prefer my exhibits to be external, because I use Second Site for my output and it only uses external, plus I have about 5 GB of pictures, most attached to TMG, and I wouldn't want to back those up each time I back up TMG, usually several times a day on a big data entry day. When you link them, they will stay external. And you will need to back them up separately.>> Is there a way to automatically include a folder full of external exhibits into your backups? While there is probably not a need to back up all your exhibits (which may take up a lot of space) every time you back up the basic TMG data, there should be a way to include the exhibit folders in the backup *.sqz file. You should be able to specify to TMG one or more folders containing your exhibit files. Then when you do a backup, you should have the option to include or not include these folders in the backup file. If you pass the backup to someone else, or move it to a new computer, restoring the backup will ensure that the appropriate directories are created and the exhibit links all still work. Of course, for optimal performance, these folders should mainly contain TMG exhibits, although you could also use them to hold other files that you want to back up with your TMG data. Pierce

Dave, Certainly FreeBMD is far from complete, but I have had pretty good luck finding the entries I want. I have not subscribed 1837OnLine recently so it may have better services since I last used it. I would guess that FreeBMD finds well over half the entries I search for. In many cases, you can also view the actual page in the index book that has a FreeBMD entry you have found. That allows you to check the accuracy of the index, or explain why a name, page or volume number is not complete or accurate. I've done some index transcribing for them and some of the pages are hard to read. The best feature I find is the marriage entries, which allow you to get a good idea of the name of a spouse. Most of the entries I have looked up recently will show all of the names of married couples on each original document page, although the index entries for those individuals are spread almost randomly throughout the index used to create the FreeBMD entries. I've heard that the General Registry Office in England is working on creating a new, electronic index of all their records which will be more complete and hopefully more accurate than the present book-bound indexes. Pierce

Wishlist: I hope Whollygenes will be able to modify TMG so that it does not require Admin authority. (Or do we have to wait for Microsoft to enhance FoxPro again?) A "regular" user is less likely to cause problems with the system if they are not sure what they are doing. Also, if you have several different users wanting to work on the same database (at different times), your TMG data base should probably not be stored under one user's "username", although that may not be a problem as long as you are forced to run as Admin. Pierce

Debra, If they don't mind storing the non-relatives, it might still be a good idea to give them your entire file. If they have a fairly new computer, space should not be a problem. That way you have an off-site backup. Even filtering out half your family may still leave a rather large backup file. There are some commercial web sites, some free, which allow you to upload files that can be downloaded by others. Your ISP may provide that service. Some services are free, at least for "small" files (which may still be larger than your backup file size).

Dave, I hope you are not citing the IGI for this information - that generally has information from parish registers and other religious documents, as well as records submitted by LDS members which may or may not be properly researched. I would guess you are getting your information from a copy of the Civil Registration index for England and Wales (which started in 1837). 1837 OnLine is a commercial source of this information. Another source is FreeBMD at http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ This is really like any other source of approximate birth date, a bit more accurate and precise than calculating from a census or death age. I don't use any special tag for these births (or marriages or deaths), but I include a footnote indicating what is my evidence. For example, if they were registered in the first quarter, I give the individual a "circa" date (since a late December birth might not be registered until January), while others I will give the precise year. If I have a census record that pointed me to a registration index record, my footnote might say: Age 25 on 1881 census. Registered 1855 3rd quarter Tiverton as John Jimmy Smith. Of course, with a name like John Smith you really need a somewhat unusual middle name to be sure you have the correct registration entry. With FreeBMD you can often identify the spouse in a marriage. A census would give you a first name of the wife, and the ages of the children could give you a good marriage date estimate. Find a likely marriage entry for the husband, then click on the page number in the index reference. You will get a list of the people whose marriage is registered on that page. For most years there is just two couples per page - choose the spouse with the correct first name. You could then try to find that woman's birth in the registration district for the town indicated in the census. For women, you need to find a candidate marriage entry, and then see if you can a census under one of the two possible married names, with the right age and birth place. In a number of cases I have found a descendant with a middle name (or even a first name) that matches a surname in the candidate spouse's family. I generally use FreeBMD and maybe the census as my only sources when I am a bit off my line. For people on or near my line I generally want to see if the certificate reveals any good clues. In several cases, the certificate provides a key clue to records of other family members. In those cases, I enter the index date when I first find it, then a more precise date when I finally get the certificate. Pierce

John, 1. The purpose of a source citation is to make it easier for someone reading your genealogy information to evaluate your conclusions and to see for themselves, if possible, what you used as evidence. You are right, US and English censuses, and others, see readily available on the Internet, and can be viewed free at many LDS Family History Centers and some libraries. But that may not always be true. I don't go in for fancy citation structures for my censuses. I provide the basic locating information used by the national archive, and usually the film number used by the FHL. For each census, I create a footnote (not a citation) that reverences Ancestry (if that is where I got it), and then copy the entire citation line from the Ancestry web site, which contains all the information anyone needs. I also indicate that I have the image on file (on my computer). My census entry gives the town location that the census references so others can do an efficient search of the Ancestry database. I will usually note if Ancestry has indexed the entry incorrectly (usually due to problematic handwriting, although sometimes the document clearly has a different spelling than I have found elsewhere). 2. My current method of documenting the census is to transcribe most or all of the contents for the family of interest. (Some fields I skip over because they are largely redundant, e.g. marital status for young children, or race, for my entirely white family.) I sometimes add my own comments, such as correcting relationships or other data I feel is wrong, or noting related families living nearby. I identify each individual of interest to their appropriate role, based on the relationship column - in early censuses, everyone other than the Head are just "residents", not their actual social role of wife, child, etc. The one census tag for this document will therefore show up in the Tag list for each participant that is in my data base, but I enter the information only once. I also put an Index entry in the memo field, next to each individual of interest, so that I can create an index entry for the back of my Journal reports. I have one census template that I use for all censuses, both British and American, and as I find I need new roles, when a census taker has been creative with the relationship field, I add it the the template. I also will add a role sentence for that new role, so that if I make an individual in that role "principal", there will be a sentence suitable for the role. For example, if my relative was just a lodger with a family that is not of interest, I will create an individual for the actual Head of Household, but my principal person will be the lodger, and the entry will be introduced in a Journal report as something like "John was a lodger in the household of Jim Smith in the .... census...". In a few cases, I have later found that the head of household was a person of interest, so I would go back and expand the entry to include all the other family members in the house. I will be studying various other methods of entering census information to see if I can glean some useful ideas, but for the time being, I will stick with my present method, since it is quite simple to use. 3. Scanned images only have to be as good as you need to reliably read the information on the image. This includes being able to enlarge them on your computer to study the details of any handwriting that is not very clear. You are not trying to expand the eyeball or the wrinkle on the skin to examine a picture in great detail. You are just trying to read the fairly thick lines someone once wrote on a piece of paper. So try creating compressed JPEG files of your documents. Look at the results by enlarging them on your monitor. If you can clearly see all the detail you need to see, try a greater compression, if you feel it would improve your storage requirements. My TIFF scans of several megabytes can usually be compressed to a file of a few hundred kilobytes with no loss in readability. 4. You expressed a wish to see various methods in action. Come on the next TMG cruise, and if you express an interest in methods of recording censuses, or any other data, you can probably find other users who would enjoy discussing their methods. A number of people will have laptops so they can show just what their data looks like in TMG. You can also get 15 minutes of an expert's undivided attention to discuss an issue of interest - usually you can arrange a one-on-one with several of the experts (TMG or research interests). Of course in the lectures, questions are welcomed. And you will get a chance to visit some interesting islands. Pierce

I think both family historians and genealogists (if they have different goals) must start with social relationships. You start with your social family. Usually that is also your biological family, but not always. If not, they still are likely (but maybe not) the first ones to provide you with information or clues about your biology. If the blood-social family link is further back in your family history, you will normally get to your social family before your biological one, because those records are usually most readily available. As Bob has made clear in the past, TMG is oriented towards the biology of your family. It is still a strong tool for family historians, and there are a number of ways you can record both blood and social family information. Trying to handle both sets of information at the same time certainly complicates the analysis, both in our own minds and for any software that tries to cope with all the complications that we social and sexual creatures can generate. I think that many of us would appreciate any further tools that TMG could provide to help us sort our some of our messes. Pierce

That suggests that TMG, as the name implies, is for genealogist following blood lines, but is not so good for family historians. Pierce

I'm glad to see that others are interested in using the Index feature. It is something I want for my journal reports of any length. I have some documents that are made up of many separate journal reports (ancestors of the main person and descendants of the SPOUSES of all my ancestor's siblings - this gives a report of all blood relatives through that main person.) TMG has you entering in memo fields the exact text you want in the index, for a reference to that memo in the final report. That is very flexible so you could index one location with several entries, such as alternate names for an individual. If you enter the index information just right, that index entry gets merged with index entries created by TMG for individuals referred to in role sentences. Therefore, the index entry created by the word processor for an individual would list the pages where he/she is referred to in role sentences constructed by TMG as well as pages where the reference is within the memo text of someone else. The problem is keeping the two types of index entries consistent. If you put an index entry for someone in a memo, and then change some key information in the main entry for that individual (e.g. have an improved version of the name), the memo entry you created originally will no longer match. The index generated by your word-processor will now have two entries for that individual - the one you originally entered into the memo, and the one TMG created from the latest version of the person's name. If you want the index to have birth-death years (necessary when you want to keep separate many people with the same name), you have another piece of data that can change as you improve your data. I have suggested to Bob that an additional syntax option be added to the index entry format. Something like UFT, which uses just the individual's number to identify the index entry in the memo text. That is not as flexible as TMG's method, but it ensures the index entries produced by the word processor will be consistent between the role sentence entries and those from the memo text. That would give you the best of both formats. I'm hoping that suggestion has made it to the internal TMG wish list. Pierce

Your TIFF files are quite large, and although your hard drives may be large enough for all your images, I presume you will want to back up the data (is that why you have two 500 Gig drives?). With those large TIFF files, it will take a while to back a large number of them up, especially if you are going through a USB port. Have a look at converting the images to a JPEG with a moderate compression. See how small you can get the file while still keeping them readable. The amount of acceptable compression may differ depending on the image - some of those US census pages have a lot of tiny writing which you don't want to distort. Pierce

TMG (at least TMG 5 or later) usually must be installed on a computer in order to run it. This updates some operating system files as the program and related files are copied to the hard drive. If you just plug in a thumb drive with TMG installed on it, the operating system files on that computer will not be updated appropriately. You may be able to do that with earlier versions of TMG, those that were not designed to run under Windows 95. Although I have not tried that with TMG, I do have Ultimate Family Tree running directly off a thumb drive, so that I can run it from a locked down computer in a research office. But that program was designed for Windows 3.1 and does not know about the features of more "modern" versions of Windows. I have heard of enhanced thumb drives that will allow you to run some modern programs directly from the hard drive, but so far to me they are only rumors, and I don't know if they would work with TMG. It is useful to have backups on more than one computer, and even better if you have a running copy of your data that you put on a second computer from the backup, just to be sure you have a good backup. Better yet, have one of those computers in another part of town/the country so local disasters (house burning down, your neighborhood being flooded) won't destroy all copies of your data. Pierce

This problem with the irregular date would not occur if TMG used a method similar to UFT: allow you to specify a free-format date to be whatever you want displayed, but also specify a structured date that could be used for calculations or when a report has limited space for only a standard date. An additional sort date may also be specified. However, TMG currently uses one field for either an irregular date (used only for display) or for the standard date, as well as a separate Sort dqte. With an irregular date, calculations cannot be done and nothing is displayed if you want, for example, just the year. And I do not see any interest in adding this enhancement. Pierce

As someone who occasionally has to deal with the problem of translating documents into French, I can assure you that it is not inexpensive. It is especially difficult to produce a good translation of technical documentation, and I think the TMG manual qualifies in that regard. You need someone who is knowledgeable in the art of translation and in the technology being described. I don't know who produced the versions of the manuals in the other languages, but I suspect they were TMG users with a love of the program and a desire to help others in their linguistic community to use the product. I can't seen Whollygenes paying the going rate for translating a document the size of the user's manual. Much of the detailed help information is in the Help facility of TMG, which the manual often refers you to. That would be another significant translation effort. Pierce Toronto

Here is a trick that works in many text based Windows products. I don't have TMG on this machine so I can't test it right now. If you have a wheel mouse, hold the CTRL key while the mouse pointer is in the active window and roll the wheel. The text will get larger or smaller depending on the way you roll it. This does not change the actual document you are looking at, just the size of the display.

While Second Site may provide all your data, it does not have all the features of TMG, such as the various lists. There is some advantage in getting access to your data using the tools that you are used to having when working with your database. Pierce

By the way, that should be "U3", not "U#" (darn shift key). Looks like either could be a useful tool even if TMG won't work on it. If someone has the time to play with either product, I'm sure the TMG community would love to hear about the results. Pierce

This is one of my minor gripes about TMG: the date you put in the date field either meets the TMG date standards or it is considered an irregular date and is not used when a structured date is required. Ultimate Family Tree has a third date field called a Structured Date, which is used when the Free format date is not appropriate (in charts and tables). The Free Format date is used in narrative reports and can be anything you want. UFT normally does a pretty good job of decoding slightly off-standard Free format dates to fill the Structured and Sort date fields, but you can set all three independent of each other if you wish. Pierce

I hope this arrives before you head for SLC. Our schedule for most days we have been there was to be in the line-up first thing in the morning, and be working there when they shut up at night, but take a few hours off during the day to do sight-seeing around SLC. Take tours of the temple grounds, the conference center, the government buidings, the Beehive house, the museum just opposite the FHL, etc. And just wander the city. There are also lectures usually scheduled each day. The LDS facilities usually have lots of people willing to help you or explain the area. One thing we noticed is the lack of anywhere to pay for or make a donation for all the facilities provided by the LDS church, except for supplies in the FHL. At least when we were there, you could get tickets at the main FHL desk to allow you to have lunch in the LDS office tower. The prices there are very reasonable.