Entering Census Data, help

[mwkurt 0]

Hello,

 

I am a fairly new user of TMG having switched from FTM. I have been reading the various messageboards and visiting various websites trying to figure out a way to enter census data (i.e. Head of household, wife, sons & daughters) in a way similar to the way Terry Riegle does his. I have read every Tip that he has on his website and am very much confused on exactly how to make a new source template, make elements and add them so I get my output to be fairly nice to read. I guess I am asking for someones help in guiding me through the steps I need to do to create exactly what I need, from what buttons to press to what words to enter. Alternatively, has anyone put any step by step procedures on the web anywhere to help me along with this? I consider myself a fairly smart guy, but I am having a heck of a time wrapping my head around the various aspects of this program to make custom souces. Can anyone possibly help me out?

Thanks,

Mark

[GenerationGoneBy 0]

Mark,

First off, Terry describes the way to make census TAGS on his website. You are wanting census SOURCES. Two very different things. The tag is used to create a group of sentences for printing out the data from the census. Many users have set up systems on how to use tags for census data. The source depends on where you get your data from. Most of us use the Federal Population census microfilm. We use either the "Originals" which are copies that are owned by our local libraries, the "copies" which are scanned images at HeritageQuest or Ancestry.com. Few of us use the originals (if they still exist) which are in book form and would be housed at the National Archives, or State Archives.

 

Now assuming you meant Source, there are yet again several methods to use. There is the Lackey method, based on a book by Richard Lackey "Cite Your Sources." There is the Mills method, based on two books "Evidence" and Evidence Explained" and then there is the Custom method, based on how you were taught to do sources in high school.

 

After picking which citation method you want to use, then there are two types of TMG source fields of thought. The LUMPER and the SPLITTER.

 

The lumper puts very little source data into the source citation. They will have one source for the ROLL of microfilm, and then the rest of the information goes into the CD fields of the citation.

 

Then there's the splitter. The splitter will have one source for each HEAD of HOUSEHOLD. They only use the CD for things like page number, or discussion of the evidence.

 

I am the ultimate splitter. I put the ROLL of microfilm information into the REPOSITORY. The HEAD of HOUSEHOLD information into the source, and then use the CD for discussion of the evidence.

 

My sources are based loosely on the Mills "Evidence" templates as they were interpreted by the makers of Ultimate Family Tree, the software I used before coming to TMG. They also have a little custom flavor as I don't like to abbreviate source information. I am not writing for a journal or genealogy society so I don't follow form closely. I give you my template and printout so you can modify it for your needs.

 

[HOUSEHOLD] household, [COUNTY], [sTATE]<, [PAGE]>. [DATE] Federal Population Census<, [REPOSITORY INFO]>< [PRESENT OWNER].>< Estimated date(s) of birth: [CD1].>Hereinafter cited as <[TITLE]>: <[sOURCE NUMBER]>.

 

This would print:

 

John Gee household, Rutherford County, TN, Page 241. 1850 Federal Population Census, Robertson and Rutherford Counties, TN, [National Archives Microfilm M432, Roll 894], National Archives, Washington, D. C. Copy of microfilm roll in possession of author. Estimated date(s) of birth: between 1848 and 1849. Hereinafter cited as 1850 Rutherford Co., TN-John Gee: #249

 

You can leave off the Hereinafter cited part. It helps me to find the original source, so if someone wants a copy, they can say I need source #249. Notice I put the date(s) of birth in the CD field. If there is not a CD field, then that sentence would not print. I would put the information about the roll of microfilm into a repository. I would then link it to the source(s) that it applies to. I only have to enter that information once. If I find a typo, I just have to edit the repository.

 

As Lee says,

I hope this helps. I hope I haven't confused you more. Thinking it out now will save you lots of time down the road. You are wise to do so. You will love TMG once you learn it and get it set up the way you want. THat's what people call the learning curve. Once you have mastered that, TMG will grow with you as you become a better genealogist.

Edited May 19, 2008 by GenerationGoneBy

[Terry Reigel 0]

Mark,

 

Your initial comments refer to Census Tags, as Teresa says. But your later comments seem to be clearly refering to creating a Census Source Type. I do have one article specifically on that, but there is no necessity to use the Source method I describe in order to get the text output from the census Tag that I describe.

 

If you are trying to work out the source system you want to use, have you read my article on Creating a Custom Source Type and the articles linked in it about source elements?

 

If you did, and that hasn't helped, can you describe where in the process you get lost?

[mwkurt 0]

Theresa and Terry,

 

Thanks so much for your replies!

 

Terry.....I have read the tip you you suggested and that is pretty much where I get screwed up. I think that I can successfully make the tags as you suggest on your page using roles and such. So that part is okay. Is that all I need?

I guess I am wanting to be a splitter, having my reports tell who was in the household, their ages, occupations, down to the page number and line that the HOH is on.

So, I create the tags I need according to your page with roles and the different outputs for one parent, both parent, etc...

I want to source the census' that I get from Ancestry. Do I have to create a special source for this? I guess I am getting mixed up on what exactly I need to create to get the ouput that I would like to see and then how to create it.

On your "Managing Census Information" page, you say the first thing that you do is to create a source entry for the census and that you create one for each roll of microfilm that you look at. So then I go to the "Census Sources Types Using the Split CD". This is where I really get messed up. I then look at "Creating A Custom Source Type" page and try to follow the directions there. I made a copy of one of the census types and saved it. I then tried to go in an edit the Source Elements as you have on the page cited above about "Using the split CD". It seems that I can't create the elements as you have...CD1, CD2, CD3...etc. They're not in the element selection screen either. So what do I do?

Let me ask....I create a Tag for each census year, with roles that I fill in in the witness area...correct. I then have to cite where I got this information. Of course it is census images from Ancestry. So I have to cite this with a custom source that I have to create and change the elements to reflect what you have done. In order to create this custom source I have to follow what steps to get it done? Do I have to create a custom source for each year of the census I use? I guess I am mainly having a problem creating the custom source with custom elements. Could you help me out with this?

Once again, thanks so much for responding and taking the time to try to help me out. I appreciate it so very much. I hope this all makes some sort of sense to you.

Thanks,

Mark

[Terry Reigel 0]

Thanks so much for your replies!

You're welcome, Mark.

Terry.....I have read the tip you you suggested and that is pretty much where I get screwed up. I think that I can successfully make the tags as you suggest on your page using roles and such. So that part is okay. Is that all I need?

I guess I am wanting to be a splitter, having my reports tell who was in the household, their ages, occupations, down to the page number and line that the HOH is on."

The Tags will get the information into the text of the report. That's really totally separate from how you choose to construct your Sources.

 

My Tag design is intended to record who is in the household and how they are related, and output that in reports. I also use the Census tag for reporting other information that doesn't seem to fit well elsewhere, like how much real estate they reported. But I don't put ages and occupations there - I record occupations and immigration data in tags for those purposes, and use the age info as sources for the Birth tags.

 

I never record all the census information in one place, but some users like to do that. I see a choice if you want to do that - either construct the census tag to accomodate that information, or put it in the source record. To put it in the census tag you would have to modify my design, since I don't accomodate it. I've never tried to figure out how difficult that might me. I suppose it depends on whether you want it to print in reports or not.

 

So the next question is how to construct the source as you like it. Since I don't want to record a lot of detail in the source, I get by with creating one Source per microfilm/county, adding the HoH name, town, ED, and dwelling/family numbers in the CD. If you wanted to record all the family data in the source, I'd think you would have to create one source per family. Again, you have a choice as to whether to print it (in the footnotes) or just put it in the Comments field of the Source Definition and not print it.

 

Another option is to put all the details in the Citation screen for the Census Tag. You could use either the CD or CM field, and choose to print it or not.

 

The real question, I think, is what do you want record, what do you want to print, and where, and what do you want to record but not print, if anything. What you print in the Tag will go in body of the report, and what you put in the Citation or the source definition will be in the footnotes if you print it.

 

I want to source the census' that I get from Ancestry. Do I have to create a special source for this?

Not really. Most agree you should include the fact that you saw the image there, but I do that by adding a note to that effect in Comments. You could use another source element for that if you prefer, but I don't see you need to do more than that.

On your "Managing Census Information" page, you say the first thing that you do is to create a source entry for the census and that you create one for each roll of microfilm that you look at. So then I go to the "Census Sources Types Using the Split CD". This is where I really get messed up.

I think you really need to think through the issues above before you can do much with creating a source type that will work well for you. But in the meantime, answers to some of your questions.

I then look at "Creating A Custom Source Type" page and try to follow the directions there. I made a copy of one of the census types and saved it. I then tried to go in an edit the Source Elements as you have on the page cited above about "Using the split CD". It seems that I can't create the elements as you have...CD1, CD2, CD3...etc. They're not in the element selection screen either.

The CD elements actually appear on the Citation screen when you cite the source - not on the Source Definition screen. So you just type them into the templates, and they don't get used until you actually create a citation. That's how I get by with not putting all the details like HoH and dwelling number in the Source Definition and still get it to appear in the finished notes. That info gets added in the Citation, then when the notes are created it gets spread around appropriately in the note text.

Let me ask....I create a Tag for each census year, with roles that I fill in in the witness area...correct. I then have to cite where I got this information. Of course it is census images from Ancestry. So I have to cite this with a custom source that I have to create and change the elements to reflect what you have done.

You don't have to create a custom source - you could actually use the standard one, by adding the [COMMENTS] element. But I'm not fond of the standard census source, and would suggest you work up something you will like better.

Do I have to create a custom source for each year of the census I use?

Not for each year. But there is so much difference between the early years and the later ones, that I have on for 1840 and before and one for 1850 and later.

I guess I am mainly having a problem creating the custom source with custom elements. Could you help me out with this?

Sure, but I think it would help if you thought out what you want to record in the source, as I discussed above, so we can move in the right direction for you.

[mwkurt 0]

Terry,

 

Well....after playing around and trying different things for a couple days, the lightbulb finally went on and I am starting to figure out some things. I do have a couple questions for you though.

 

What is the best way to look at and test the sentence structures? Is it by using the "Journal"?

 

I have entered sentences for the Witness roles, but they are not printing on my journals. The witnesses, i.e. children, are included in the paragraph about the prinipal but the witness sentence does not print out where the children of the principals are listed. You know where the little Roman Numerals are with a listing of the children???

 

Another thing I would like to add is the ages of the Principals and the witnesses to be displayed after each person is listed in the intial paragraphs, something like "given age of 24", or the like. I have entered that in the memo field for the witnesses but it doesn't show up. Is there a way to add this information so it shows up? This is the sentence that I would like the ages to be displayed after each person is listed:

 

[PF] <|and [PO]> appeared on the 1850 Federal Census of< [LCI],>< [LCN],> [LS]<, at [LD]> [LP]<, enumerated [D]><, [M]>. <Their children [RG:with Parents], were listed as living with them><His children [RG:with Father] were listed as living with him><, [M2]>

 

Thanks,

Mark

[Terry Reigel 0]

Well....after playing around and trying different things for a couple days, the lightbulb finally went on and I am starting to figure out some things.

Good.

What is the best way to look at and test the sentence structures? Is it by using the "Journal"?

Since you said you were a new user, I assumed you are using v7, but I see you posted this in the v6 section, so maybe not. In V7 there is a sentence preview for both Principals and Witnesses that helps a lot. It's not exact, because it use the default report options, not the ones you may use, but still very helpful.

 

Beyond that, there is a "Preview Report" on the the Reports toolbar - it uses the Individual Narrative report for the current focus person. If you prefer the Journal style report, you can create a custom Preview report with your favorite options set, and then attach that to a button on the custom toolbar for easy access. In my view, the "best" preview is a report in the style you actually use.

I have entered sentences for the Witness roles, but they are not printing on my journals. The witnesses, i.e. children, are included in the paragraph about the prinipal but the witness sentence does not print out where the children of the principals are listed. You know where the little Roman Numerals are with a listing of the children???

First, anything beyond BMDB tags don't print in that list of children if the children have their own section elsewhere - so if they do, you have to look in that section.

 

Witnessed events will only appear if you choose the "All Events and Witnessed Events" option on the Tags Tab of Report Options. So that could be the issue. There are a couple of other options that might cause these events not to print, but those are the most likely.

Another thing I would like to add is the ages of the Principals and the witnesses to be displayed after each person is listed in the intial paragraphs, something like "given age of 24", or the like. I have entered that in the memo field for the witnesses but it doesn't show up. Is there a way to add this information so it shows up?

What you enter in the Witness Memo will appear only in the text about the witnesses, if you add the [WM] variable to their sentences. You cannot access the contents of the WM from the sentences or the Principals. If you need it in the sections for the Principals, it needs to go in the main tag Memo.

[mwkurt 0]

Okay...Thanks again for that info.

 

Another question.

 

Is it a true that if I use the 1900 census as a source for say 100 different HOH's, that if I look in the "Master Source List", I will have 100 entries of the 1900 census? In other words, I will have to make a copy of my 1900 census each time I use it as a source? Is there not another way to enter the Title, County, State, Film Number and Comments for a HOH using only one copy of the source? If that is the way it works, I don't have a problem with it. It just seems that there will be a lot of clutter in the Master Source List after I am done.

 

Thanks,

Mark

[GenerationGoneBy 0]

Mark,

 

Yes, if you find 100 head of household and make each of them the source you will have 100 sources in the Master Source List. You can make them inactive once you use them and they will only show if you select MORE view. Or you can make the County the source and put the head of household stuff in the CD fields. I prefer the first method, I think Terry does the second. Either way is fine as long as you are consistent with how you enter data. Personally I have 4000 sources and I can find the one I need in less than 3 seconds, so it's not that big an issue.

[Terry Reigel 0]

Is it a true that if I use the 1900 census as a source for say 100 different HOH's, that if I look in the "Master Source List", I will have 100 entries of the 1900 census? In other words, I will have to make a copy of my 1900 census each time I use it as a source? Is there not another way to enter the Title, County, State, Film Number and Comments for a HOH using only one copy of the source? If that is the way it works, I don't have a problem with it. It just seems that there will be a lot of clutter in the Master Source List after I am done.

As Teresa says, it all depends on how you choose to define a Source in TMG. Yes, you can create a different Source in TMG for each HoH. If you do that, you would enter the HoH, and the dwelling and family numbers, etc., in the Source Definition.

 

That's not what I do in the Census Sources you see described on my site. I create one Source Definition for each county/film roll (whichever is smaller). Then I put the HoH, ED, dwelling and household number, in the CD when I cite that source. When you print the footnotes you can't tell the difference, but you see far fewer Sources in the Master Source List.

 

I'm not sure it's all that important which method you use. My method gives you fewer Sources, but makes the CDs much more complex. It's a trade-off, with no clear "right" answer.

[GenerationGoneBy 0]

I'm not sure it's all that important which method you use. My method gives you fewer Sources, but makes the CDs much more complex. It's a trade-off, with no clear "right" answer.

 

 

I agree with Terry. The one reason I like to have them in the Source Definition and not the CD is if I later find a typo, I only have to edit one place. But I think you can also edit the CDs with Find and Replace, or TMG utiltiy, so that point is mute. If Terry and I both created a source, you'd likely not be able to tell which method was used. So it's really just a matter of personal preference. One of the many things that gives TMG that "learning curve" yet makes it so customizable that we all love it.

 

The only "right" answer is what pleases you.

[Terry Reigel 0]

Teresa makes a good point about fixing errors in recording the source. If my experience is a guide, you will occasionally make an error, and if you use my method of putting all the details in the CD, then use the Repeat (F3) key to add citations to other tags, you will have multiple copies of the error. John Cardinal's TMG Utility makes quick work of fixing them. But of course it is even easier if you have the information in the Source Definition.

 

As I said before, I don't think there is a clearly "better" way.