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Pat_in_Tucson

Wish List - Prepositions "in" and "a"

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I have been concerned for sometime about the "in" and "at" choices of prepositions to describe locations. I spend much time doing a "search and replace" -- and still miss some.

 

Generally, in the US, we would say "I was born in Medford, Oregon" and "I was born at Sacred Heart Hospital in Medford, Oregon."

 

I would like to see the program changed to reflect that usage in the journal reports.

 

As a reference, I found the following explanation.

 

"At" describes a point, while "in" describes an area.

 

http://owl.english.purdue.edu/handouts/esl/eslprep2.html

 

In the Master Place list, this would mean that the "detail" and "address" would generate an "at" preposition, while the City, County, State, and Country would generate an "in" preposition.

 

Any chance for a programming change? Or, a work-around?

 

Pat :unsure:

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My work around was to create a preposition place style. I use L10 (i think, I'm not at my home computer) to store the preposition I want. In reports and in Second Site, I suppress the generation of the preposition.

 

The potential down side (and I don't have a problem with it), is that the preposition becomes part of the place name. Your place links in Second Site for instance will include the at and in.

 

The advantage is that it is very easy to make things read the way you want.

 

Sheila Altenbernd

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I have been concerned for sometime about the "in" and "at" choices of prepositions to describe locations. I spend much time doing a "search and replace" -- and still miss some.

 

Generally, in the US, we would say "I was born in Medford, Oregon" and "I was born at Sacred Heart Hospital in Medford, Oregon."

 

I would like to see the program changed to reflect that usage in the journal reports.

 

As a reference, I found the following explanation.

 

"At" describes a point, while "in" describes an area.

 

http://owl.english.purdue.edu/handouts/esl/eslprep2.html

 

In the Master Place list, this would mean that the "detail" and "address" would generate an "at" preposition, while the City, County, State, and Country would generate an "in" preposition.

 

Any chance for a programming change? Or, a work-around?

 

Pat :unsure:

 

Pat,

 

That isn't always true...

If my detail says "The Main Ballroom, Hopscotch Hotel" I would want in- not at- used, wouldn't I?

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To Pat et al: The issue of "at" or "in" has been brought up many times in the past and, like you, I find it frustrating that we have to find a "workaround" on our own for something that I feel should be handled within TMG. Good for you Pat that you referenced a link with a detailed explanation of how and when "at" and "in" should be used.

 

It's unlikely that you'll see a response from a Moderator because in the past the answer has always been to find a workaround. But I consider a workaround to be a solution to maybe a 1% or 2% problem...not a 10% or 20% (or more) problem. The fact that this issue keeps getting raised means that it bothers a lot of people and shouldn't just be blown off as a minor nuisance.

 

John

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Pat,

 

I like the idea! I'm frustrated with this, too, but have so far ignored it. Bravo for presenting a clean, concise solution.

 

I'm sure there would still be some cases that would have to be worked around, but this would solve most of my irritations.

 

Jane

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It's unlikely that you'll see a response from a Moderator because in the past the answer has always been to find a workaround.
Hmmm... I guess that means I should not respond?? :rolleyes:

 

Pat, your idea has a lot of merit as a change to the default. However, many of us (including some of us users that have volunteered to be moderators) believe that the entire handling of places could use a major overhaul. The handling of prepositions is only one thing I would like to see improved. We are all free to suggest items for a Wish List, and based on many of the enhancements that have been added to TMG in the past Wholly Genes has shown that it does listen to these wishes. If a user (who might also be a moderator) agrees with the wish they should say so as wishes that many users desire seem to be more likely to be implemented. Beyond that, until such time as the program changes all that any of us can do is suggest workarounds. :)

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To Pat et al: The issue of "at" or "in" has been brought up many times in the past and, like you, I find it frustrating that we have to find a "workaround" on our own for something that I feel should be handled within TMG.

There are already two solutions available in TMG.

 

1) Use the sentence structure.

or

2) Use a place style.

 

Neither is a 'work-around'.

 

What I would guess is being asked for is a third solution.

 

There has been considerable discussion of a way to select the preposition with a field or drop box on the Tag Entry screen. There are many complexities to this approach but I think they can be resolved; however, there still has not been an agreement as to how to implement this.

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My apologies to Michael and Jim. When I re-read my post ("It's unlikely that you'll see a response from a Moderator...") it sounded a bit nasty, but that was not my intention. I was simply making the point that this topic had been brought up and responded to many times before.

 

John

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Pat,

 

That isn't always true...

If my detail says "The Main Ballroom, Hopscotch Hotel" I would want in- not at- used, wouldn't I?

 

Andy

 

You add another layer to the problem, that of "compound detail"

 

The "Hopscotch Hotel" would give you an "at"

 

". . .married at the Hopscotch Hotel in New York City, New York."

 

The "Main Ballroom" "in" is a "container" so to speak. You could say,

 

". . .married at the Main Ballroom in the Hop.. . ."

 

or ". . .Married in the Main Ballroom at the Hop. . "

 

I can only think of one incidence I have of that usage, "married in the 'ballroom' (read 'porch') of the mansion (read 'farmhouse') at . . . ."

 

In your case, I think you could reverse the sentence to read: ". . .at the Hopscotch Hotel, in the main ballroom" -- thus the field would contain "the Hopscotch Hotel, in the Main Ballroom"

 

In my case, I could also reverse the order to ". . .at Claybank, in the ballroom of the mansion"

 

Now, let me think about that solution for the next higher level. :o

 

Pat

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Pat, your idea has a lot of merit as a change to the default. However, many of us (including some of us users that have volunteered to be moderators) believe that the entire handling of places could use a major overhaul. The handling of prepositions is only one thing I would like to see improved. We are all free to suggest items for a Wish List, and based on many of the enhancements that have been added to TMG in the past Wholly Genes has shown that it does listen to these wishes. If a user (who might also be a moderator) agrees with the wish they should say so as wishes that many users desire seem to be more likely to be implemented. Beyond that, until such time as the program changes all that any of us can do is suggest workarounds. :)

 

Thanks to all for the responses.

 

I also recall discussing this in the dim past -- on the e-list, not the forum -- but at the time, I didn't think it through to the point of field level.

 

I understand that this is a big programming and design issue, but the programmers have come up with many other equally complicated tweaks, and this one is one that spreads throughout any journal report, so I hope they will listen to us.

 

I also agree about other issues on the place handling, but that's 'way beyond me, so I have no legitimate suggestions.

 

Pat

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