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DanDennison84

New User Evaluating TMG

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Hi everyone,

 

I've just started doing genealogy in the past month. I started with ancestry.com. I like the research aspects, but didn't like the tree and reporting aspects of it. So I tried Family Tree Builder and PAF since they were free. I then also purchased Legacy for $20 which I'm using now. I've been slowly trying to get to more sophisticated systems that help me organize my file system, citations and sources and reports. After I bought Legacy, a very helpful person helping me with some family research showed me some TMG reports and explained TMG to me. He had the census information tabularized in the report somehow. I've wanted to create my own census transcription for myself so I don't have to keep refering to the image and then display it in my reports.

 

Of course, at that point, I got a sinking feeling in my stomach about the $20 I just spent on Legacy and the $70 price tag for TMG and xxx amount for ancestry.com and any other sites I want to use for research. I've also heard there is possibly a version 8 coming out. So I'm not interested in paying for TMG 7 and then again for TMG 8. I've sent an email to the support team to ask what their upgrade policy will be. So hopefully good news =)

 

I've downloaded the evaluation version of TMG and imported my tree into it from Legacy. I've read Terry's TMG tips and read over the newsgroup archives and these boards for a few days. I've made my own sentence structures, created my own tags, played around with reports, worked hard on sources/citations, etc, etc. So with all of that said and done, I've got a few questions remaining on my evaluation and where I go from here, so hopefully some kind person can answer a few questions!

 

MRIN

I use MRIN numbers to organize my hard copies of all documents (see how it is done here). A MRIN is a marriage/family identifier much like the RIN numbers you see in TMG for an individual. The difference/rules are that a person can have more than 1 MRIN (1 per family) and unmarried children stay with the parent MRIN. So the ancestors I'm working on now, the Thomas Dennison household, has a MRIN of 5 in my filing system. His wife Ann and their 10 children share it (and each child that marries and/or remarries gets a new MRIN so you can see where the multiples come in). So the 1860 census, marriage records, land claims, etc for his household are sitting in my filing system under MRIN 5.

 

I found one discussion on the TMG mailing list for MRIN and confess to not fully understanding it. What I've done is create a custom tag (other) called MRIN and then add the husband and wife as principles and the children as witnesses. I then put the MRIN in the memo field and have the sentence structures in the tag as "[M]" just for testing purposes now.

 

My question is, is this best way to do it? I really want to continue to use MRIN numbers and it makes sense to me organizationally, I just need a good way to make it work in TMG. Are custom tags the way or citations or some combo? Here is what I want to be able to do in TMG with it:

  • Add MRIN tag to husband, wife and children painlessly. Currently, I use the picklist F2 and F8 for add multiple witnesses
  • Use the MRIN to find everyone with the same value. Currently, I have to create a filter for MRIN = 5 OR witnessed MRIN = 5.
  • Create a hotkey or something that associates everyone in a MRIN together. I haven't figured that out yet, maybe focus groups?
  • Control the output of the MRIN in reports. This is the one that I have the most questions about and hence my second topic.
  • A MRIN report including each MRIN and the individuals or a report by individual and each MRIN they have. I'm sure there must be a list report I can customize for this, just haven't gotten around to it yet.
  • Track the next available MRIN number. Legacy does this for me including renumbering. Since TMG doesn't support MRIN, I'm not hopeful, but maybe there is some kind of trick/technique to increment a counter in TMG?

Tags and Reports

I've read up a lot on this and I understand that the TMG reports are some of the most sophisticated around, but obviously I'm no expert. First, when I view my tag in the normal details window, is it possible to just show the memo value of 5 and nothing else for that tag? It shows up as a regular tag in the Detail panel for a person. Type, Date, Name/Place, etc. In the Name/Place, it says "Ann KEVILL (137), 5" for the MRIN tag. Is there a way to remove the wife's info and just show the 5?

 

Next, when I do an Individual Report from the report menu, it gives me a columnar list of each tag for that individual and whatever the details are according to the sentence structure. My MRIN tag here says "Ann Kevill (137) (b. Jul 1836, d. 18 Jun 1915); 5.". Can I get the 5 which is the MRIN value to somehow show up more prominately? Like on the Subject line where it says "Thomas Dennison (138)" at the top of the report? Maybe with a "(5)" after the (138)?

 

So I guess my question really boils down to how customizable are the reports themselves rather than the content within them? I've seen and read a lot about changing sentence structures and layout for an existing report, but can I actually change the layout of the existing report itself? Like tell it to place a TAG as a superscript on the subject line? Is there the equivalent of a sentence structure for the report itself?

 

Thanks,

Dan

Edited by DanDennison84

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I've just started doing genealogy in the past month.

Welcome to a great obsession. :)

I started with ancestry.com. I like the research aspects, but didn't like the tree and reporting aspects of it.

I totally agree - Ancestry is a great research tool, but for my money their tree system leaves much to be desired.

I've been slowly trying to get to more sophisticated systems that help me organize my file system, citations and sources and reports.

Good move. Better now than after you have tons of data entered that would need to be revised.

After I bought Legacy, a very helpful person helping me with some family research showed me some TMG reports and explained TMG to me. He had the census information tabularized in the report somehow. I've wanted to create my own census transcription for myself so I don't have to keep refering to the image and then display it in my reports.

TMG does not do that with standard reports, but users have devised methods to do it. I find it easier to just keep a copy of the images in an organized way on my computer and pulling them up when I need to refer to them again. If the question is "did I read the image correctly" having a transcription isn't going to help, and that's about the only question I find myself asking about previously entered census records.

Of course, at that point, I got a sinking feeling in my stomach about the $20 I just spent on Legacy and the $70 price tag for TMG and xxx amount for ancestry.com and any other sites I want to use for research.

Like other hobbies, genealogy isn't free, though it's not really that expensive compared to many others. And yes, there are some other great subscription sites you will at some point want to use.

I've also heard there is possibly a version 8 coming out. So I'm not interested in paying for TMG 7 and then again for TMG 8. I've sent an email to the support team to ask what their upgrade policy will be. So hopefully good news =)

Yes, there is. You will need to get the official stand on that question from support - hopefully they have responded.

MRIN

I use MRIN numbers to organize my hard copies of all documents... a marriage/family identifier much like the RIN numbers you see in TMG for an individual.

 

What I've done is create a custom tag (other) called MRIN and then add the husband and wife as principles and the children as witnesses. I then put the MRIN in the memo field and have the sentence structures in the tag as "[M]" just for testing purposes now.

 

My question is, is this best way to do it?

I'm not sure. How to you want to access the MRIN numbers? Only on screen, or in reports too. Where should the be in reports?

 

Putting them in a tag as you have is probably a pretty good choice - it automatically links the parents and all the children. An alternative is to use the Reference Field. I would thing that people would typically not have more than four MRINs, so you could put them one after the other, separated by commas or the like.

 

I don't see the value of adding them to the citations - it seems like a lot of work for little gain to me. But you could enter it in the Reference field on the citation screen if you want. It's really intended for a person source filing number, and that seems to be what you are using the MRIN for.

 

Continued in the next post...

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Here is what I want to be able to do in TMG with it:

*Add MRIN tag to husband, wife and children painlessly. Currently, I use the picklist F2 and F8 for add multiple witnesses

That works for a tag - it wouldn't if you used the Reference field.

*Use the MRIN to find everyone with the same value. Currently, I have to create a filter for MRIN = 5 OR witnessed MRIN = 5.

Yes, you can do that with either a Tag or using the Reference Field

*Create a hotkey or something that associates everyone in a MRIN together. I haven't figured that out yet, maybe focus groups?

The closest I can see to do that is to create a List of People report, using the [?] code in the filter, and put it on the custom toolbar as button.

*Control the output of the MRIN in reports. This is the one that I have the most questions about and hence my second topic.

Either a tag or use of the reference field would do this, but with quite different results.

*A MRIN report including each MRIN and the individuals or a report by individual and each MRIN they have. I'm sure there must be a list report I can customize for this, just haven't gotten around to it yet.

With the MRIN in a tag, you could create a List of People report, and sort on the MRIN. You would get one line per person., but grouped by the MRIN.

*Track the next available MRIN number. Legacy does this for me including renumbering. Since TMG doesn't support MRIN, I'm not hopeful, but maybe there is some kind of trick/technique to increment a counter in TMG?

I don't see a way to do that in TMG.

 

Continued in the next post...

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Tags and Reports

First, when I view my tag in the normal details window, is it possible to just show the memo value of 5 and nothing else for that tag? It shows up as a regular tag in the Detail panel for a person. Type, Date, Name/Place, etc. In the Name/Place, it says "Ann KEVILL (137), 5" for the MRIN tag. Is there a way to remove the wife's info and just show the 5?

You cannot get rid of the Tag Type Label, nor the date - which in your case is empty. In the Name/Place column you see see only the name of the other principal. You can get rid of that by putting your custom Tag in the History group. In that group, everyone is entered as Witnesses, and thus do not appear in the Name/Place column.

Next, when I do an Individual Report from the report menu, it gives me a columnar list of each tag for that individual and whatever the details are according to the sentence structure. My MRIN tag here says "Ann Kevill (137) (b. Jul 1836, d. 18 Jun 1915); 5.". Can I get the 5 which is the MRIN value to somehow show up more prominately? Like on the Subject line where it says "Thomas Dennison (138)" at the top of the report? Maybe with a "(5)" after the (138)?

The image you link to is of the screenshot again rather than to the report, so I'm not clear on which report you are trying to use. Could you explain that in more detail?

So I guess my question really boils down to how customizable are the reports themselves rather than the content within them? I've seen and read a lot about changing sentence structures and layout for an existing report, but can I actually change the layout of the existing report itself? Like tell it to place a TAG as a superscript on the subject line? Is there the equivalent of a sentence structure for the report itself?

There are some variables for the Report Title on the General tab of Options. Open that screen, click Help, and choose the General link to see them. I don't think any of them are going to help you do what you want here.

 

Sentences are only used in narrative reports - it sounded like you might be using the Individual Detail report, which does not use them. One way to get very customized output is to use a custom Language and create custom Sentences for it, and then use that Language in a narrative report. That's how the tabular census reports are made I think. You could also create a sentence in your MRIN tag that makes it more noticeable, such as using a larger font, bold, etc., and sort it first or last. But that would only work in narrative reports.

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Sentences are only used in narrative reports - it sounded like you might be using the Individual Detail report, which does not use them. One way to get very customized output is to use a custom Language and create custom Sentences for it, and then use that Language in a narrative report. That's how the tabular census reports are made I think. You could also create a sentence in your MRIN tag that makes it more noticeable, such as using a larger font, bold, etc., and sort it first or last. But that would only work in narrative reports.

 

Yes that is how Tabular Census reports are created. My language is actually called Tabular. The great thing about using a custom sentence is that you can still use the date, place, and memo fields, you just get different output, because the sentences are different. It also works good if you want to create a report for say a genealogical journal where data is more concise, sentences more technical and a family history where you use the same tags but you want the sentences to be more wordy and explain what a will, deed, census enumeration, etc are. Both sentence structures use the same tag, and dates, places, and memos, but the difference is the sentence structures in the two languages.

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Hi Dan, welcome to genealogy and TMG. You asked:

Is there a way to remove the wife's info and just show the 5?
And Terry replied:
You cannot get rid of the Tag Type Label, nor the date - which in your case is empty. In the Name/Place column you see see only the name of the other principal. You can get rid of that by putting your custom Tag in the History group. In that group, everyone is entered as Witnesses, and thus do not appear in the Name/Place column.

Yes you can with your MRIN tag. If you use an exclusion marker (a dash '-') in front of the Principal's ID number, and you set your Preferences // Program Options // Tag Box // Show excluded data to unchecked, then the person's name will not show in the list of tags.

 

I wonder if you really want to identify people with your MRIN code, or if you really want to identify where you are filing the actual source documents. TMG allows you to link a Repository with a Source record. I have a Repository called "My Files". When I link a Source record to that Repository on the Attachments tab of the Source Definition, TMG provides a small field called the Repository Reference. I use that to identify into which file folder my document has been placed. You could just put your MRIN there. Or you could have separately identified Repositories for each MRIN and identify the people in the Repository memo. Then when you looked at your list of Repositories you would see which MRIN was used.

 

There is great flexibility in TMG, and lots of options. You might have to do something "differently" but I have found there is usually a way to do pretty much whatever you want in TMG.

 

Hope this gives you ideas,

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Hi again everyone. Thanks so much for taking the time to read my questions and give me your opinions and answers. They were really helpful. I just got back from a weekend back at the family farm where I found a treasure trove of old photos, letters, birth certificates, land deeds and lots of other goodies. I also got about 50 photos of gravestones of various relatives but haven't checked how well they turned out yet.

 

@Everyone - The official TMG upgrade policy is that if you purchase software and a new version comes out within 90 days of your purchase, your upgrade is free. So now I have to pick the right time and hit that window =) I'm not too worried though, it seems that the way I am doing things in Legacy will port directly to TMG when I'm ready to upgrade.

 

@Terry - Now that I think about it, I don't really care about seeing MRIN numbers in my reports per se. What I want is it to be on my family sheets and charts and other print outs to show all the MRIN numbers associated to an individual. That just helps me when I am looking through the charts on a hard copy and want to check on a census or other record, I know where it is in my filing system. So basically, anywhere a RIN would show, all the MRIN would show too. If it isn't possible, I'll just have the tag print and I can live with that. The history tag thing was exactly the kind of advice I was looking for!

 

@Terry - I guess my copy and paste of the link didn't work, try this one. It is the Individual Report. You pretty much answered most of my questions about reports.

 

@GenerationGoneBy - That Tabular language sounds nifty. Is there somewhere I can learn more about it?

 

@Michael - Those observations about filing and ID numbers are good ones. It is something I've been thinking about since I started doing this. It is also the main reason I keep migrating to more sophisticated software. I want flexibility so that I don't lock myself into something. I'm not tracking people with MRIN. What I'm doing is just using that as a file reference number to my filing system. The thing is, I want it to show up somewhere on the report and not really in the citation or bib sections. I want it there because when I'm showing my grandma a family chart or Descendency list or something like that and my mom is saying "I'm sure Great Aunt Lucile went to school in 1917 in Ida Grove" I can see Lucile's MRIN, open my file folder and pull out all the records about Lucile in about 10 seconds. I usually use simple print outs (i.e., no citations, sources, bib, etc) for family since it seems less daunting to everyone involved.

 

At one point, I had a repo for everything. I then had broad, generic sources and then detailed citations. I also had file numbers on everything. I used the call number on the repo as the ID sometimes. As I've read more genealogies by other people and seen other discussions about how to do citations, I'm becoming more of a "detailed source, generic citation" kind of person. So now instead of having an 1860 census source, I'll have a "Thomas Dennison Household in Jefferson, Union, South Dakota" source. I then attach an image file to that source. Then each citation is just generic with no details. That way I don't get in so much trouble when I copy/paste citations around. Since citations/sources/repos can all have a file id or a call number, the system seems really flexible to me. I can now put my MRIN number there if I want as well. I also only use repos now for things that aren't broadly available like my personal files or something from a county courthouse or a church.

 

Not that what I'm doing is the greatest thing since sliced bread, but it works for me so far. But I'm always looking for ideas on better ways to do things =) I can see now I'm going to have a LOT of files to store and I don't want to get half way through them and find out my file system sucks =)

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@Terry - Now that I think about it, I don't really care about seeing MRIN numbers in my reports per se. What I want is it to be on my family sheets and charts and other print outs to show all the MRIN numbers associated to an individual. That just helps me when I am looking through the charts on a hard copy and want to check on a census or other record, I know where it is in my filing system. So basically, anywhere a RIN would show, all the MRIN would show too. If it isn't possible, I'll just have the tag print and I can live with that. The history tag thing was exactly the kind of advice I was looking for!

Dan,

 

I'm a bit confused by your comment that you don't care about the MRIN on reports, then that you do for "family sheets and charts and other print outs" - those are what I would call "reports." :) I gather you are using the term "reports" more narrowly.

 

If you put the MRIN in a Tag, you can include it in Family Group Sheets, narrative reports, and Individual Detail reports. You can include only the Primary one in Box Charts. You cannot include them in Pedigree and Descendant Charts.

 

If you put it in the Reference field you can include it instead of the person's ID number in narrative reports, Family Group Sheets, Pedigrees and Descendant Charts, and Individual Detail reports, but not in Box Charts.

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If you put it in the Reference field you can include it instead of the person's ID number in narrative reports, Family Group Sheets, Pedigrees and Descendant Charts, and Individual Detail reports, but not in Box Charts.

 

Terry -

 

You can include the Reference number in Box Charts. That option is on the Other tab, under Identifiers, along with the ID option. In fact, I think you can include both the ID and Reference number in most reports.

 

Virginia

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Hi again! Sorry for my confusing choice of words. Reading it again it doesn't make much sense to me either =) We were discussing three different ways track MRIN: Tags, citations or as Reference numbers. So my comments were in reference to that. My point was that I didn't care about the MRIN TAG per se but more about what I need to use it for. It sounds like the TAG version of MRIN allows me much greater flexibility in putting it in reports, using it, searching on it, etc. The Reference field can also fulfill some of those needs, but does so differently. It also shows up in different places on various reports. Citations provide yet a 3rd option.

 

So at the end of the day, it sounds like I can use MRIN in TMG and get it to mostly do what I want it to do which is the answer I was looking for =) I don't have to completely solve how to do it today as I'm probably not going to buy TMG until I hear it coming out within 3 months. I still have my evaluation version to play with. Since I got everything in Legacy and I'll have to do the MRIN stuff by hand after the import, I've got some time to try all the different ways you have suggested.

 

So it is probably best that I try some of the suggestions, then if I have more questions they'll be more concrete and hopefully simpler to answer.

 

This board is really great for the help you given me and I've learned a lot! Thanks so much!

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You can include the Reference number in Box Charts. That option is on the Other tab, under Identifiers, along with the ID option. In fact, I think you can include both the ID and Reference number in most reports.

Thanks, Virginia. Right on both counts. I should have looked more closely.

 

This board is really great for the help you given me and I've learned a lot! Thanks so much!

You're welcome, Dan. :)

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Yes, you can find my tabular census information by clicking on the TMG SENTENCES link in my signature. Once you go to that page, scroll down to census tags and the link to TABULAR CENSUS report is #10.

 

That page was created using 5.0, but still works in 7.0.

 

I would recommend going ahead and buying 7.0 now and begin using it if you like TMG. Upgrades to newer versions are not that expensive if you don't fall in that 90 day window and you'd be using the product all this time.

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