Date modifiers

[Peter Tarkkonen 0]

In TMG there is a good range of different date modifiers available like circa, after, before etc.

 

However, several times I have needed "the latest" or "the earliest".

This is due to language (translation) issues. My language is not english.

 

Also "before" is not inclusive the year like "the latest" is.

Ofcause, if documents say marriage happed "the latest 1771", I could use "before 1772".

That would technically do, however translated language is not good finnish.

 

Any ideas my dear colleques?

 

Peter

[Terry Reigel 0]

Peter,

 

One solution, assuming you are using narrative output, would be to enter "before 1772" in the Date field, since that would be a regular date, then enter "the latest 1771" in the Memo, then change the Sentence to refer to the Memo instead of the Date field. If you encounter this often, you could create a Role with that Sentence.

[Peter Tarkkonen 0]

Peter,

 

One solution, assuming you are using narrative output, would be to enter "before 1772" in the Date field, since that would be a regular date, then enter "the latest 1771" in the Memo, then change the Sentence to refer to the Memo instead of the Date field. If you encounter this often, you could create a Role with that Sentence.

 

Thank You Terry, this option is worth of thinking.

 

Peter

[Michael Hannah 0]

Hi Peter,

 

You can enter dates in four different places: the Sort Date field, the Date field, the Memo, and as text in a custom sentence. Each has advantages and disadvantages for sorting, age calculation, and narrative output.

 

For sorting as you have noted, when entered in the Sort Date field the TMG "before" is exclusive, but the TMG "after" is inclusive. I would enter whatever TMG needs to sort correctly in the Sort Date field. For example, to get the reverse of TMG's built-in meanings, if I wanted "inclusive before" I would enter a Sort Date of "before" the "next" date following, e.g. "before 1772" to sort "inclusive before" 1771. If I wanted "exclusive after" I would enter a Sort Date of "after" the "next" date following, e.g. "after 1772" to sort "exclusive after" 1771.

 

For the narrative output, I usually enter exactly what I want in the Date field, even if it is an irregular date. So in English I would enter "in 1771 at the latest", or "in 1771 at the earliest". Thus, you could enter whatever is the appropriate Finnish qualifier text directly in the Date field. The problem with irregular text in a Date field is that these dates cannot be used by TMG to calculate Age if your sentence uses an Age variable. If you don't use Age variables, then the date TMG needs for sorting in the Sort Date field and the desired exact text in the Date field will work.

 

But if you do use Age variables, I would put the same TMG needed date in both the Date field and the Sort Date field so both sorting and age calculation work. Then I would put whatever is the desired narrative text in a split Memo part as Terry suggested. I then would customize the sentence to use that memo part instead of the Date variable, e.g use [M2] instead of [D]. As Terry suggested, I might define a custom role sentence which used the memo part instead of the Date variable, so that most of the time I would use the Date variable in a standard sentence but the memo alternative would be available for such special situations.

 

Of course, whether or not you use Age variables you could "locally" customize the narrative sentence of this tag to remove the Date variable from that sentence and enter the text of the date with its desired qualifier directly in that sentence. I prefer not to locally customize sentences, so I would not choose that approach, but it will work.

 

Hope this gives you ideas,

[Peter Tarkkonen 0]

Hi Peter,

 

You can enter dates in four different places: the Sort Date field, the Date field, the Memo, and as text in a custom sentence. Each has advantages and disadvantages for sorting, age calculation, and narrative output.

 

For sorting as you have noted, when entered in the Sort Date field the TMG "before" is exclusive, but the TMG "after" is inclusive. I would enter whatever TMG needs to sort correctly in the Sort Date field. For example, to get the reverse of TMG's built-in meanings, if I wanted "inclusive before" I would enter a Sort Date of "before" the "next" date following, e.g. "before 1772" to sort "inclusive before" 1771. If I wanted "exclusive after" I would enter a Sort Date of "after" the "next" date following, e.g. "after 1772" to sort "exclusive after" 1771.

 

For the narrative output, I usually enter exactly what I want in the Date field, even if it is an irregular date. So in English I would enter "in 1771 at the latest", or "in 1771 at the earliest". Thus, you could enter whatever is the appropriate Finnish qualifier text directly in the Date field. The problem with irregular text in a Date field is that these dates cannot be used by TMG to calculate Age if your sentence uses an Age variable. If you don't use Age variables, then the date TMG needs for sorting in the Sort Date field and the desired exact text in the Date field will work.

 

But if you do use Age variables, I would put the same TMG needed date in both the Date field and the Sort Date field so both sorting and age calculation work. Then I would put whatever is the desired narrative text in a split Memo part as Terry suggested. I then would customize the sentence to use that memo part instead of the Date variable, e.g use [M2] instead of [D]. As Terry suggested, I might define a custom role sentence which used the memo part instead of the Date variable, so that most of the time I would use the Date variable in a standard sentence but the memo alternative would be available for such special situations.

 

Of course, whether or not you use Age variables you could "locally" customize the narrative sentence of this tag to remove the Date variable from that sentence and enter the text of the date with its desired qualifier directly in that sentence. I prefer not to locally customize sentences, so I would not choose that approach, but it will work.

 

Hope this gives you ideas,

 

Thank You Michael!

 

Very impressive reply, lt gives a lot to think about.

 

Looks like there is no simple answer or several pros and cons in all.

 

Sentence (using memo) could make it perfect from output point of view, but in entering data mode data would look different. Also many tags should be edited.

 

If I would use irrecular date and enter "the latest 1771" in data field and 1771 is sort field. What do I lose then?

In reports age calculation will not work with after/before anyway, right?

 

Peter