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TMG8 and Win8 first experiences

Windows 8

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#1 aalston

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 02:04 PM

I have had a go with the recent "Consumer Preview" of Windows 8.

It is supposedly based on Win7 under the skin, but instead of the "Start Menu", there is a screen full of large rectangular buttons, supposedly to look like an MS smartphone. Note that I said "instead of". That little button in the corner that gave you access to all those apps and utilities, carefully arranged into a hierarchy, is gone. All the apps now have to fight for space with the big rectangular blocks for the Music Player, the Video Player, the Facebook Application, the Twitter Application, the XBOX Live Application... Real applications lose. They are shoved off the right hand edge. The approach probably makes sense to phone users, who can scroll through hundreds of apps, bragging about the sheer number they have bought, but some of us prefer some organisation in our environment.

And I thought that things were bad when I saw users with a traditional Windows desktop stuffed full of icons.

The OS installed easily enough. But would it work with a real-world application?

What had I handy? TMG 8.01. My usual laptop runs XP, but I've also run on Win7 without hassles. I'm sorry, Wholly Genes, Windows 8 isn't your fault. I know you are doing your best. It's just that sometimes one of your major suppliers stabs you in the back.

TMG had the benefit for this test that the underlying database software is from MS, so it stood a good chance of being supported by them.

So, I ran the install. A few seconds later, when the installer got busy copying files around, Win8 leapt in with a message saying that the installer had "stopped responding" and "will be shut down". I avoided the "OK" button and hit the cross in the top right, hoping to avoid the termination. It was terminated. Note especially that you don't get the chance to wait a bit longer. Windows Has Decided! Windows Is Always Right!

I ran the install again, and it got further (many files were already in position), and I had a couple of error messages about the PDF printer. I can live without that for a test, so I hit ignore.

I am left with an installed TMG8, so I run it. It starts up and starts building indexes for the sample databases, just as normal. Before it finishes, "TMG has stopped responding and will be shut down".

Two loadings later and I have a chance to restore my SQZ, which has about 12000 people and a host of exhibits. I take the easy course and let TMG restore the exhibits to the default exhibit path, thinking I'd sort them out later. Many of the exhibits are referenced by multiple people (pictures of churches etc) so I took "don't overwrite" option when given a chance. Bad move. "...will be shut down" appeared three times before I reran the restore using "overwrite all". On XP or 7, using "don't overwrite" would restore the exhibits in about 40 seconds. "Overwrite" takes about 25 minutes.

This version of Windows appears to have Attention Deficit Disorder. If an application fails to display a new message on screen every 20 seconds or so, Windows 8 assumes that it is faulty and kills it off.

To see whether my logic was true, I moved on to "Validate File Integrity", so I could fix the paths for the exhibits. The process starts, then reaches 3%, which is where it is checking the exhibits. TMG at this point is performing many thousands of system calls as it checks the locations of those exhibits. Windows 8 assumes that it is doing nothing at all useful "and will be shut down".

It took EIGHT runs through Validate before TMG got a chance to fill in the paths for my exhibits.

Needless to say that I will NOT be trusting my databases to any PC running Windows 8 until I have conducted much testing on a proper release. Probably not even then. Windows 7 is a much more sensible option.

#2 walterwood44

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 08:05 AM

I also installed TMG8 on my WIndows 8 computer with the Consumer Preview. The only issue I had was that after the install of TMG went without problems, the PDF writer tried to install but crashed. I was able to browse the sample database and do other normal functions in TMG other than print to PDF.

Aalston you might have a bad install of Windows 8.

Walter

#3 Jim Byram

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 09:42 AM

I've been running TMG8 under Win8 since the Developer Preview was released and have had no problems at all.

If you miss the Desktop / (classic) Start menu under Win8, there are several alternatives to add a functioning Start button and Start menu.

#4 aalston

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 04:23 AM

The machine I was describing was a laptop about 4 years old. Dual-core 1.7GHz processor, 2GB RAM, 160GB 5400rpm drive. Win8 appears to demand a much higher spec, but just misbehaves with the sort of box which many users have.

That same laptop completely failed to install Win8 64bit. Both 32- & 64-bit versions of Win7 installed happily. It is now out in the field with a company Win7 build without reported problems.

I've since had a go on boxes with quad-core CPU and 4GB RAM and 7200rpm drives. The same Win8 installation DVDs worked OK, and TMG installed as walterwood44 describes as his experience.

I still won't be using Win8. The enforced abrupt and unexpected changes from "proper Windows" to the blocky "Metro" screen make this a no-no.

I should not have to purchase a third party add-on to make an operating system usable.

And, please remember that Microsoft's stated intention is to kill off the "legacy" Windows. Metro is the only environment to be supported in the future. Metro is an environment where there is no longer any concept of a "window" - every single display item, whether it be a video, a File Open dialog box, or just an announcement that "An Error Occurred", is full-screen. You will not be able to see a web page and a spreadsheet at the same time unless you have two monitors.

There won't be a Windows 9. The next version will be labelled Microsoft Metro, as there will no longer be any Windows to name it after.

Edited by aalston, 06 June 2012 - 04:25 AM.


#5 Jim Byram

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 06:00 AM

I should not have to purchase a third party add-on to make an operating system usable.


The three available alternatives to add a functioning Win7 type Start menu are free so you don't need to purchase anything..
http://classicshell.....net/index.html
http://www.stardock....roducts/start8/
http://lee-soft.com/vistart/

(I really like the beta version of Start8 for the RTM version of Win8. Classic Shell gives you more options to customize the Start menu if you want that.)

The Win8 system requirements are no different from those for Win7.

Edited by Jim Byram, 30 August 2012 - 07:24 AM.


#6 retsof

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 08:32 AM

2GB of RAM seems awfully tight. I don't know whether Win 8 needs more memory or not but more always helps and memory is fairly cheap these days. What you would have to get depends on what kind of slots are available in there. If there are 2 slots and two 1Gb sticks then they should be replaced. If 4 slots with one 2Gb stick or two 1Gb sticks used, then one 2Gb stick or two 1Gb sticks could be added.
4 Gb is the max for a 32 bit OS. Some could be taken for graphics, etc. so you don't get all of that, either.
Cautions are advised to buy memory with the same type, speed, timings and latency as existing memory (questions for the computer store).

It could be swapping things to disk all over the place, leading to those "stopped responding" errors. You could not isolate install writes from swap writes by just looking at the disk light.
Another program could also be chewing up cycles, leaving little for TMG. The task manager could help find problems of that type. Don't run the install at the same time as a full system virus scan, in other words.

I have 4GB on a desktop running Vista and 16 GB on a desktop running 64 bit Win 7. (TMG remains as a 32 bit application in only one core.) TMG7 runs fine with Vista, but I have SQZ restore issues in another thread with TMG8, so I am not going to put it on a portable laptop for now.

Edited by retsof, 12 June 2012 - 08:47 AM.


#7 trm

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 12:19 PM

I installed my 7.04 TMG on my new Win8 system today. Seems to work fine. Data is all there; but I think some FLP files from the sqz did not make the reinstall. TMG hung up once. I'm having trouble limiting the generations in an indented Desc. report; might just be I've forgotten how to stir the parameters...
[I][FONT=Times]Tom Murphy





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