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Joe Cummings

footnotes and bibliography problem

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Windows 7 and TMG 9.05

Cannot seem to get the CD variables resolved on report printing. I can get the correct print on other definitions that use split CDs. On this patricular problem source definition, the preview comes out ok; but the printout in a report has unresolved variables.

Here is an example:

 

Source Definition for #1281

newspaper title: Daily Union

Short Newspaper title: Daily Union

Location: Schenectady, New York

Comments: this IS a COmment

 

full footnote

<[iTAL:][NEWSPAPER TITLE][:ITAL]><, loc [LOCATION]><, c01"[CD1]"><, c02[CD2]><, by [CD3]><. co5Website name [iTAL:][CD5][:ITAL]><. c06([CD6]><: c07[CD7])><. Personal library file name: [CD4]><. [CM]><. [COMMENTS]><. Hereinafter cited as [sHORT NEWSPAPER TITLE]>.

short footnote

<[iTAL:][sHORT NEWSPAPER TITLE][:ITAL]><, "[CD1]"><, [CD2]><. [CM]>.

bibliography

<[iTAL:][NEWSPAPER TITLE][:ITAL]><, [CD2]><. Website name [iTAL:][CD5][:ITAL]><. [CD6]>.

 

Citation for Birth Tag

source #1281

CD: obituary||feb 2, 1936; p.34, col 5||byline person||hjc8421-005-k001e001||jim's hosting website|http:??test.web.com/gh||was there 2013||

CM: MEMO

 

output in report

bibliograaphy

Daily Union<, [CD2]><. Website name [CD5]><. [CD6]>.

endnote

1. Daily Union, loc Schenectady, New York, c01"obituary". MEMO. thisIS a COmment. Hereinafter cited as Daily Union.

 

Joe

 

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Joe,

 

You cannot use CDs in the Bibliography. That's because there is a single bibliography entry for each source cited in the report, even though there may be an unlimited number of such citations, each with different values in their CDs. Which set should appear in the bibliography?

 

That's one of the issues when using split CDs to format the footnotes - you have to write the bibliography template so it works without the CDs, which means that information you might want in the bibliography can't appear there. This is one of (many) reasons that drove me to give up "lumper" sources with split CDs and convert to "splitter" sources where all the information can appear in the bibliography.

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Hi Joe,

 

As Terry says, you cannot use CDs in the Bibliography. In fact the Bibliography template cannot contain any of the variables for any data which is entered in the Citation window as part of a specific citation: CDs, CMs, CREF. As Terry points out, you should design source templates so that all data that is common and unchanged among that unlimited number of possible citations is put in the Source Definition and its linked Repository Definition. The variables for any of that data can be put in the Bibliography. Everything that is specific to that single citation (e.g. page number, a short quote, etc.) should be entered in the fields on the Citation screen, and the variables for those fields can only be put in the two footnote templates.

 

While I am a "lumper" I use a Bibliography all the time, and thus have structured my source templates accordingly. For my examples, see the Source Templates chapter of my on-line book. To use the data from your post to construct an example, my custom source type for an Obituary/Newspaper Article as posted in that chapter is here. I choose to have as the Source Definition the entire obituary article, and then quote data from specific items within that article in citations to multiple tags.

 

I would probably enter a Source Definition for your example source using my source type as:

NEWSPAPER = Daily Union
SHORT NEWSPAPER = Daily Union
ARTICLE TITLE = Long Time Resident Mrs. Mary Jones Dies
SHORT ARTICLE TITLE = Mrs. Mary Jones Obituary
SECTION = Obituaries
AUTHOR = Fred Byline
DATE = Sunday, February 2, 1936
DATE OBTAINED = November 13, 2013
LOCATION = New York, Schenectady
LOCATION DETAIL = Schenectady, New York
EDITION = Home Edition

PAGES = page 34, column 5 to page 35, column 1

COMMENTS = This is a comment about the source.

 

And this would be linked with the repository reference to "jim's" repository
REPOSITORY REFERENCE = hjc8421-005-k001e001
REPOSITORY = jim's hosting website
REPOSITORY ADDRESS =http:??test.web.com/gh

Then for the first of the many citations I might have a citation of time and cause of death to the Death tag:

CD= p.34, col 5, second paragraph
CM= "Mrs. Jones died of a heart attack at 3 a.m. yesterday morning at her sister Willa's home."

 

And I might have a second citation to the Burial tag:
CD= p.35, col 1, first paragraph
CM= "Mrs. Jones will be buried at St. Mathew's Cemetery."

This would produce:

Full Footnote from the first citation:
Fred Byline, "Long Time Resident Mrs. Mary Jones Dies," Daily Union, Schenectady, New York, Sunday, February 2, 1936, Home Edition, Obituaries, p.34, col 5, second paragraph. Cited as "Mrs. Mary Jones Obituary", Daily Union. "Mrs. Jones died of a heart attack at 3 a.m. yesterday morning at her sister Willa's home."

Short Footnote from the second citation:
"Mrs Mary Jones Obituary," Daily Union, Sunday, February 2, 1936, p.35, col 1, first paragraph. "Mrs. Jones will be buried at St. Mathew's Cemetery."

Bibliography:
New York, Schenectady, Daily Union, Sunday, February 2, 1936, Home Edition, Obituaries, Fred Byline, "Long Time Resident Mrs Mary Jones Dies", page 34, column 5 to page 35, column 1. hjc8421-005-k001e001. jim's hosting website, http:??test.web.com/gh. Obtained November 13, 2013. This is a comment about the source.

 

Your source type will probably be different but I hope this gives you ideas,

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Michael,

 

I don't understand. You say you use a "lumper" approach, but the example you give looks to me like a "splitter" source definition.

 

Joe's example seems to call for a Source to be defined for each newspaper title, a modest "lumper" style to my thinking. But your example seems to call for a Source to be defined for each individual article - a full "splitter" approach it seems to me.

 

Am I missing something in your example?

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No, you are not missing anything, Terry. I am mostly a lumper but sometimes a splitter. :D You are right, the above example is more of a "splitter" example in that it is a Source for a single article. But that seemed to me to fit best with what Joe put in his example bibliography, i.e. the specific page numbers of this one article.

 

However, the "Article Title" is an optional element in that Source Type, as is "Pages", so one could use this Source Type to create a Source for a specific edition of a paper, or just the paper itself. But as I try to describe elsewhere in the book, that would require putting all the other information in the Citation data which could not appear in the Bibliography.

 

Further, the very next Source Type in the book is a Source Type example of how one could “lump” multiple articles from the same newspaper into a single source record which only contained source element data about that newspaper on that date. It even discusses how multiple "split" sources can be "lumped" into a single Bibliography entry. And most of my other Source Types are even more "lumper" style, such as my "Birth Church Register" where I give an example of using this Source Type for a single Source of an entire Bishop’s transcript book with combined Baptism, Marriage, and Burial data from multiple churches. Talk about a giant "lump" of data. :D

 

As we both have said, one has to decide what is desired in the Bibliography. The more one wants in the Bibliography, the more "split" the Source Definition will have to be. Everything else goes in the Citation data. And as my book points out, if you want less in the Bibliography but still want to "split" your Sources, with carefully constructed templates you can even get TMG to "lump" multiple "split" sources into a single Bibliography entry.

 

I did say "I am a lumper" to point out that one can be a lumper and still use a Bibliography. But I should probably have more accurately said "While I am usually a "lumper" I use a Bibliography all the time".

 

Regardless, as we are both trying to point out to Joe, the Bibliography automatically "lumps" to the level that is common among all the many citations to this source, so it cannot contain specific citation data.

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Thanks Terry and Michael,

 

Yes I was trying to have one such source for each newspaper with articles designated in same paper having the same source with article specfics designated via the citation detail.

 

Did not realize that one should look at the bibliography as the representing only the whole book/document; thus, no citation info. Makes sense once that is pointed out!

 

Remaining question is why the problems in the footnotes?

 

Thanks for your help,

Joe

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You're welcome, Joe.

 

The issue with the footnote seems to be that you only got CD1 to appear. The usual reason for that is checking the "Unique Endnotes" box in the report Definition.

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You are most welcome, Joe.

Remaining question is why the problems in the footnotes?

The comment about unique endnotes Terry mentioned is also in TMG's HELP under the topic "Report Options: Sources":

"Unique ... endnotes never produce an “ibid”. This option does not recognize split CDs or CMs."


In the Source Guide chapter of my book I also mention unique endnotes here. As that discussion explains, this limitation is one of the reasons I choose not to use that report option as I regularly use split CDs and CMs.

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