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My citations disappeared

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I went into my project to edit some people that I added a few months ago and noticed that there were no sources attached to their events (I am very diligent about sources). I opened a backup from July and the sources are fine. Why aren't they attached anymore? I can't use the old backup because I have added 300 or so new people since that backup. I don't know when the sources disappeared from those people.... I haven't looked to check to see if ALL the sources are no longer linked. I see the sources in the Master Source list, but it has lost it's relation to events. Some events or all, I have no way of telling.

 

HELP! Any suggestions?

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.... noticed that there were no sources attached to their events (I am very diligent about sources). I opened a backup from July and the sources are fine. ...

Hi,

Have you tried runing the maintenance routines under File>Maintenance?

Particularly Validate File Integrity, and keep rerunning it until it says no problems found.

This may or may not be a shot in the dark, but is well worth a try, and should be run regularly anyway.

What version are you running (not that I can remember anything particular in any version that lost data completely)

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There was a lengthy discussion about this in the old forum before the messages were deleted. I was one of those who lost sources as well. I have since reinstalled my operating system and as of yet have not had any problems (keeping my fingers crossed). What happened to me is that random sources seemed to simply disappear. There seemed to be no pattern or way to tell which sources disappeared. Sometimes ALL source citations for a particulr event would disappear and sometimes just ONE or SOME of them would disappear.

 

I wish I was able to reproduce exactly what happened so we could assist WhollyGenes in correcting the problem, but unfortunately I have found no way of telling when and how it happens.

 

I do wish to perhaps throw something at the developers (although it may be a total shot in the dark). I do database development and on my old system I had Visual Studio C++ 6.0 with Visual FoxPro installed. I also had updated several database drivers such as ODBC and ADO. When I reinstalled my operating system I purchased Visual Studio .NET. This does not come with the FoxPro drivers and I have also not installed any additional and updated database drivers and now I have no problems with missing citations. But like I said, probably just a shot in the dark...

 

Ken V. Nordberg

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I was also one of those who had citations start disappearing in 6.00. Usually on events that I hadn't touched in months. I am not aware of losing any additional ones since installing 6.03.

I have never had Visual Studio, Visual FoxPro, or Visual Studio .NET so I don't really think that had/has much to do with it.

 

Jennifer

 

There was a lengthy discussion about this in the old forum before the messages were deleted. I was one of those who lost sources as well. I have since reinstalled my operating system and as of yet have not had any problems (keeping my fingers crossed). What happened to me is that random sources seemed to simply disappear. There seemed to be no pattern or way to tell which sources disappeared. Sometimes ALL source citations for a particulr event would disappear and sometimes just ONE or SOME of them would disappear.

 

I wish I was able to reproduce exactly what happened so we could assist WhollyGenes in correcting the problem, but unfortunately I have found no way of telling when and how it happens.

 

I do wish to perhaps throw something at the developers (although it may be a total shot in the dark). I do database development and on my old system I had Visual Studio C++ 6.0 with Visual FoxPro installed. I also had updated several database drivers such as ODBC and ADO. When I reinstalled my operating system I purchased Visual Studio .NET. This does not come with the FoxPro drivers and I have also not installed any additional and updated database drivers and now I have no problems with missing citations. But like I said, probably just a shot in the dark...

 

Ken V. Nordberg

Edited by jreusser

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That's good to hear. What gets me is that the citations are there at one point and then through some random, yet-to-be-discovered mechanism citations get deleted. I almost wish it was possible to turn on some kind of debug logging feature were we can log all read and write attempts to and from the database and if we notice writes that really should not be there, something's up.

 

It just really sucks because TMG is without a doubt the best program out there, particularily because of it's source features.

 

Ken V. Nordberg.

 

I was also one of those who had citations start disappearing in 6.00. Usually on events that I hadn't touched in months. I am not aware of losing any additional ones since installing 6.03.

I have never had Visual Studio, Visual FoxPro, or Visual Studio .NET so I don't really think that had/has much to do with it.

 

Jennifer

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Totally agree. I have been suspicious that some of my sources have disappeared for quite some time, but, not being as diligent as some people, if I don't see a source on a tag I don't know for sure that it once had one. It's more like, man, I certainly thought that had a source, and did I not enter it or did I lose it?

 

I guess this is a warning never to delete ancient backups. Maybe some of those sources are findable back in my 4.0d files.

 

Karla

 

That's good to hear. What gets me is that the citations are there at one point and then through some random, yet-to-be-discovered mechanism citations get deleted. I almost wish it was possible to turn on some kind of debug logging feature were we can log all read and write attempts to and from the database and if we notice writes that really should not be there, something's up.

 

It just really sucks because TMG is without a doubt the best program out there, particularily because of it's source features.

 

Ken V. Nordberg.

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I have just verified today that the missing citations are still a problem in Version 6.04. using just a few entries, I can show that after using CTRL-F3 to pick a citation from the list of previously used items, another citation that was recently entered disappears. I have been able to reproduce the problem and will send a copy of my database along with a sequence of steps to help them reproduce the problem. Let's hope it can be fixed.

 

Bob Greiner

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CTRL-F3 or just F3? I've never used anything but F3. What does CTRL-F3 do?

 

Karla

 

I have just verified today that the missing citations are still a problem in Version 6.04. using just a few entries, I can show that after using CTRL-F3 to pick a citation from the list of previously used items, another citation that was recently entered disappears. I have been able to reproduce the problem and will send a copy of my database along with a sequence of steps to help them reproduce the problem. Let's hope it can be fixed.

 

Bob Greiner

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CTRL-F3 or just F3? I've never used anything but F3. What does CTRL-F3 do?

 

Karla

CTRL+F3 brings up the full list of the last 15 sources used for you to pick one, particularly useful if you know you've used it recently, but it wasn't the last one that F3 would bring up

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I have been able to reproduce the problem and will send a copy of my database along with a sequence of steps to help them reproduce the problem. Let's hope it can be fixed.

Bob, I'd be happy to try and replacate the issue with your project and instructions, and will get it to the developers if I can. Please contact me using the "Contact Terry" link on the bottom of the page on my website - link below.

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You have my sympathy as this has now happened to me as well.

 

I have had all sorts of problems with rel 6.04 as it would not allow me to back-up my files. After having gone for over a month without being able to back-up, out of desperation, I re-installed 6.04 from scratch.

 

I'm now up and running again and at least I am able to now do back-ups again. But I've noticed I have lost some sources. The source still appears in the Master Source List but the link to the person is just "lost".

 

The question is how many have I lost, and there is just no way to know. This is incredibly frustrating as with over 2,500 persons in my project it's like looking for a needle in a haystack. It would be helpful if you could call up a report which listed source entries but there is no such option under Tools.

 

I recall someone else in the forum saying they had lost witnesses as well and I presume this must be part of the same problem.

 

It's really unfortunate because it makes you just lose confidence in the product.

 

Regards,. Simon

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It would be helpful if you could call up a report which listed source entries but there is no such option under Tools.

Reports are found on the "Reports" menu, not on the "Tools" menu. :)

 

By "source entries" I assume you mean citations to a source, and not a list of sources themselves. If so, the List of Citations report will give you what you want, I think. If not, please describe more specifically what you are trying to do and we can help.

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Thank god this is happening to others (though I don't thank god or anyone else that its happening at all!). For a long while I thought it must be just my own absent-mindedness, but recently I ran a test which proved pretty conclusively that citations previously entered mysteriously go AWOL. This is extremely frustrating since the whole point of adding citations is to avoid, at a later date, having to go through (in my case) many hundreds of hard-copy sources to locate the source of particular pieces of information. I rely upon TMG in a consultancy business, where time is definitely money; the problem significantly undermines the reliability of the program and I am now seriously considering using another program. I simply can't afford to use a program which loses me the time I now have to devote to retracing and re-entering sources. I emailed Wholly Genes but have not received a reply.

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I have just verified today that the missing citations are still a problem in Version 6.04. using just a few entries, I can show that after using CTRL-F3 to pick a citation from the list of previously used items, another citation that was recently entered disappears. I have been able to reproduce the problem and will send a copy of my database along with a sequence of steps to help them reproduce the problem. Let's hope it can be fixed.

 

Bob Greiner

 

If you have shown that it only happens with CTL-F3 then I can heave a sigh of relief - I have only used the F3 feature.

 

If this bug is proven (Terry?) I hope someone posts a warning on the TMG mailing list to avoid use of the feature for the time being.

 

And Bob, I wonder if using the VFI feature recovers the citations.

 

Dick

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I know for a fact it happens in other instances too because I have never used Ctrl-F3 either and I still have citations disappearing on me. I have stopped using any combination of the F3... just in case. So far I have not noticed any additional citations disappearing, but I am keeping close watch now. I make daily backups and I save ALL my previous backups so I can go back an check.

 

Just like the previous poster pointed out, kind of makes you loose faith in the program, which advertises it's unsurpassed citation capability in the first place.

 

I had sent a few screenshots before the forum messages were deleted showing how VFI effectively deletes all traces of the citation, so definetly do not use VFI if you're trying to recover lost citations. I have had situations where the citations were counted (i.e. the citation screen showed 3 citations for a particular event, but no citations are actually listed, when I ran VFI the count was reduced to 0 with still no citations showing and I knew from backup projects that I in fact had citations for that particular event).

 

So there are without a doubt some weird things going on with the citations. What makes it even more dangerous is that they are so darn hard to spot unless you keep backups and ritually record your sources.

 

Ken.

 

If you have shown that it only happens with CTL-F3 then I can heave a sigh of relief - I have only used the F3 feature.

 

If this bug is proven (Terry?) I hope someone posts a warning on the TMG mailing list to avoid use of the feature for the time being.

 

And Bob,  I wonder if using the VFI feature recovers the citations.

 

Dick

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After posting yesterday, I went back into my current project. I can now report that even after re-entering citations only a day or two previously, when I go back into the edit screen, in at least some instances, the citation has disappeared a second time. But I also noticed, it only seemed to have done so where it was the only citation listed; where there were others listed as well, it seems to have "stuck" - but because this phenomena is so random, its hard to know whether or not this will always be the case. But it does suggest one possible "work-around": create a "dummy" citation and always enter this along with the "real" citations so there's always more than one listed. The other back-up is to embed the citation into the memo field (which, fortunately, I often did in the past, so at least some of the losses have been relatively easily replaced - but not all!), and of course this will only work for events which allow it (ie not for names or relationships).

 

I have to say I'm pretty browned-off with TMG for this. I now realize from this forum that its been something of a long-standing problem. The company really ought to have issued a warning about this to users. The citation function is absolutely central to TMG's research capability, especially where (as in my case) the database may be used for advocacy purposes. Its one of the main reasons I started using the program several years ago. I now have about half a dozen databases, each with several thousand people and several hundred citations, which must now all be considered vulnerable and unreliable. Relying on back-ups is not a practical option, especially where the database (again, as in my case) is being updated almost daily. Nevertheless, from now on I won't be deleting any of the old backups!

 

It would be good to hear something from the company on this one.

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I developed a scheme to find potentially deleted citations over a period of time. It's based on printing (to text file) the list of citations for two instances for which data is available. I used a backup from some time ago and the current status of the project. Then I ran the utility FC (see the command window) comparing the two files.

 

I found only one instance of citation loss over the past several months, and I believe that's a manual change I made (a new source became available so I deleted the citation to the old one).

 

A disadvantage of this technique is that the difference report will include other changes in the data which appears in the LOC report, specifically changes in wording of the source cited and manual edits to individual names (for example, I changed "Unknown Given Name" to "unknown given name" for some people and this resulted in change reports.

 

Depending on the size of the data base and the update activity over the period, this could be a useful tool to uncover citation loss.

 

Dick

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I have just verified today that the missing citations are still a problem in Version 6.04. using just a few entries, I can show that after using CTRL-F3 to pick a citation from the list of previously used items, another citation that was recently entered disappears. I have been able to reproduce the problem and will send a copy of my database along with a sequence of steps to help them reproduce the problem. Let's hope it can be fixed.

I've got your project and description and can replicate the issue. I didn't get the loss in step 6 but do get those in subsequent steps. Now trying to figure out what's happening.

 

The problem is what happens in step 5. When you use CTRL+F3, a new citation is created with no record number. However, even if that is repaired, the citation losses in steps 6-9 occur. Reported the issue and sent the data to a programmer.

Edited by Jim Byram

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I've got your project and description and can replicate the issue. I didn't get the loss in step 6 but do get those in subsequent steps. Now trying to figure out what's happening.

 

The problem is what happens in step 5. When you use CTRL+F3, a new citation is created with no record number. However, even if that is repaired, the citation losses in steps 6-9 occur. Reported the issue and sent the data to a programmer.

May we know what steps so we can avoid them?

Or do we just have to take note if an "empty" citation appears and check that tag.

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May we know what steps so we can avoid them?

This is not a general phenomenon and would appear to be project-specific. I have tried to replicate this in my test project with no success. So I can't tell you what steps to avoid.

 

Or do we just have to take note if an "empty" citation appears and check that tag.

What's an "empty" citation?

 

At this point, I just don't know enough. Sometime tomorrow, I'll have a better picture of what's happening.

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This is not a general phenomenon and would appear to be project-specific. I have tried to replicate this in my test project with no success. So I can't tell you what steps to avoid.

What's an "empty" citation?

 

for "empty" citation read record number, on a reread of the earlier post.

(which sounds like something you'd only notice if you wer digging around in the files)

Glad it appears to be project specific, I admit to being a bit worried by this thread.

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for "empty" citation read record number, on a reread of the earlier post.

(which sounds like something you'd only notice if you wer digging around in the files)

Glad it appears to be project specific, I admit to being a bit worried by this thread.

 

I wouldn't take too much comfort from it being said to be "project specific". In fact, quite the opposite. This only means it is unpredictable and seemingly random, and since (in my case, anyway) it appears to have started some months after I began work on the project (that is, something "not project specific" must have triggered it), then users must assume it has the potential to erupt in their project at any time - at least until such time as the trigger is identified; to believe otherwise would be foolhardy, in my opinion.

 

To be frank, I think the company is doing users no favour by luring them into a false sense of security by saying it is project specific. The fact is that it is affecting a number of users (as this forum demonstrates) which indicates that, while it may affect some projects and not others, it nonetheless, precisely because it appears random and without cause, has the potential to strike any project at any time. That is, it is not an isolated problem in one project, but a problem in the program which has the potential to affect any project, and has already affected a number of projects for a number of users.

 

I would have thought the company would have been better advised to warn users of the problem so that we could take steps to work around it. Until then, or until it is resolved, I think you should remain worried.

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I've got your project and description and can replicate the issue. I didn't get the loss in step 6 but do get those in subsequent steps. Now trying to figure out what's happening.

 

The problem is what happens in step 5. When you use CTRL+F3, a new citation is created with no record number. However, even if that is repaired, the citation losses in steps 6-9 occur. Reported the issue and sent the data to a programmer.

 

This is not just a problem with CTRL+F3. I rarely use this command. I know for sure that for some lost citations I definitely did not use CTRL+F3, and overall the losses appear too numerous to be put down to this command combination. I do, on the other hand, use F3 a lot and in at least some instances I can be pretty sure the original citations were entered using this command. Likewise, for the ones I noted in an earlier post which disappeared for a second time, F3 was used to enter them. Incidentally, I have checked these every day since, and so far so good (touch wood) they're still in place. I have also taken someone else's suggestion and now don't use F3, but enter either by putting in the citation number directly (when I can recall it) or by picking from the citation list. So far this also seems to be working, but it is early days yet - fingers crossed.

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I agree with pktropics. I am also willing to bet that there are quite a few people out there who have this problem without even knowing it. If someone do not record their sources for every single piece of information, determining if citations disappeared or not, is REALLY hard. I urge everyone to keep a really close eye on their citation count in the project statistics screen.

 

I am a relatively new user of TMG and I don't use many of the more advanced features of the program, and so as far as a trigger goes, we must assume that it is not some obscure combination of unlikely events that causes this problem, but rather that it exists in EVERY project and until some true reason or "trigger" is found it is treated as such.

 

The potential here is for people to have years of research made unreliable and that really scares me.

 

Ken.

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If you have this problem, please send me your project (with a description of how to cause it if possible). If you have already sent you project to Support, I need to know under what name, what date you sent it and the name of the project backup so that I can ask Support to retrieve your email and forward it to me.

 

Bob's S-table is not typical and what works with his project to cause the problem appears to be specific to his project.

 

You can contact me by email by clicking on the link below:

Jim Byram

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