My citations disappeared

[elevator 0]

Hi Jim!

I haven't had the problem yet after I reinstalled my system. Which is why in a previous post I played with a theory that involved having installed thrid-party database engines. I am a programmer and program database front-ends using a lot of different database technologies (including FoxPro) and so I thought maybe that was the reason for my problems (at that point the problem didn't seem to be so wide-spread).

 

I did send my database to Bob Velke twice. He told me there was really nothing he could do because he was unable to reproduce the problem. My problem first appeared when I upgraded from V5 to V6. Since then weird things have been happening.

 

I also sent a very detailed description of the problem complete with screenshots to Bob Velke, but I didn't hear back. Both the project files and the detailed description was sent shorty after V6 was released (I can get an approximate date by looking at the purchase receipt for V6 if needed). If you need me to resend anything let me know.

 

I am a little bit apprehensive about sending my entire project because it does contain some rather private information. Is there a way I can send you my project without having to include certain things? I know you guys are really professional and that you would never in any way compromise the data, but it just makes me sleep better if I know the only complete copy stays with me

 

I can, however, send a backup I have from early 2005 with a V5 project. This project when updated to V6 is the one that caused the problem in the first place. Bob Velke should, however, already have it.

 

Thanks for your help, Jim.

 

Ken.

 

If you have this problem, please send me your project (with a description of how to cause it if possible). If you have already sent you project to Support, I need to know under what name, what date you sent it and the name of the project backup so that I can ask Support to retrieve your email and forward it to me.

 

Bob's S-table is not typical and what works with his project to cause the problem appears to be specific to his project.

 

You can contact me by email by clicking on the link below:

Jim Byram

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[Jim Byram 0]

I'm starting to get a better feel for Bob's project and what's happening. There are three issues in going through his walk-through.

 

1) At a point in the history of the citation table, the RECNO values for the citation records changed from 4 digits to 7 digits.

2) Following the walk-through, adding a citation with CTRL-F3, a citation record is created with no RECNO.

3) From that point, there is the appearance that citations are being lost; however, NO changes are occurring in the citation table.

Edited October 26, 2005 by Jim Byram

[elevator 0]

If that is indeed the case, that the data is still in the table, it is wonderful news. Just as a side note, when I first noticed my problem (Jan 28th 2005), the citation box listed the citation count, but showed no citations, so what you're saying makes sense. When I ran VFI this count disappeared. What does VFI do with citations that experience the problem you describe?

 

I see light at the of the tunnel at last

 

Ken.

[Jim Byram 0]

I wouldn't make any assumptions until I can look at your project. I've looked at three different projects with 'lost citation' issues and all three have been different (and none have involved lost citations).

[Jim Byram 0]

Update. I can replicate the lost citation issue as seen in Bob Greiner's and Peter Blackwood's projects. And a day of refining things, I can create the problem in any project.

 

The lost citation occurs when you use F3 to add a citation directly from the citation field on the Tag Entry screen -- rather than opening the Citation screen to enter the citation.

 

What happens is that one record is replaced rather than adding a new record. In effect, each time you add a citation, you lose a citation. The way to avoid this is to NOT use F3 to add citations from the citation field on the Tag Entry screen. Use the [+] button, or F4, to open the Citation screen to add your citations. You can type in the source number or use the [binocs] button to select your source or use F3 or use CTRL+F3. From my testing, this will always add a new citation record (and bypass the lost citation problem).

 

I have not been able to replicate the problem using CTRL+F3 from the citation field on the Tag Entry screen because that opens the Citation screen which avoids the problem.

Edited October 26, 2005 by Jim Byram

[RGC 0]

....

1) At a point in the history of the citation table, the RECNO values for the citation records changed from 4 digits to 7 digits.

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I have a recollection that something like this happened to one of my databases a long time ago when I exported to Access and then back in again. At that point I decided it was a no-no.

 

Dick

[pktropics 0]

Update. I can replicate the lost citation issue as seen in Bob Greiner's and Peter Blackwood's projects. And a day of refining things, I can create the problem in any project.

 

The lost citation occurs when you use F3 to add a citation directly from the citation field on the Tag Entry screen -- rather than opening the Citation screen to enter the citation.

 

What happens is that one record is replaced rather than adding a new record. In effect, each time you add a citation, you lose a citation. The way to avoid this is to NOT use F3 to add citations from the citation field on the Tag Entry screen. Use the [+] button, or F4, to open the Citation screen to add your citations. You can type in the source number or use the [binocs] button to select your source or use F3 or use CTRL+F3. From my testing, this will always add a new citation record (and bypass the lost citation problem).

 

I have not been able to replicate the problem using CTRL+F3 from the citation field on the Tag Entry screen because that opens the Citation screen which avoids the problem.

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My thanks to Jim Byram for getting to the bottom of this and sorting out the problem in my project. However, 2 mysteries remain: (i) why it happens in some projects and not others; and (ii) in the projects it does afflict, why is it a seemingly random event- i.e. it doesn't appear to do it every time you use F3 in the Tag window?

 

Peter Blackwood

Edited October 30, 2005 by pktropics

[MsScarlet1957 0]

The lost citation occurs when you use F3 to add a citation directly from the citation field on the Tag Entry screen -- rather than opening the Citation screen to enter the citation.

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This thread really makes me worry, as I use F3 continuously.

I do not understand exactly what you are saying here Jim.

I "Guess" I am alright, as I open a tag (new or existing), hit F4 then hit F3.

I don't know of any other way to add a citation besides using the (+) or hitting F4.

Where would one find the "citation Field"?

I guess I want to be sure I don't don't use the "wrong" way of adding...

but don't understand what that is, exactly.

Sorry for being confused...

[Terry Reigel 0]

I "Guess" I am alright, as I open a tag (new or existing), hit F4 then hit F3.

 

What you are doing is fine.

 

I don't know of any other way to add a citation besides using the (+) or hitting F4.

Where would one find the "citation Field"?

On the Tag entry screen, at the bottom, there is a list of citations. That's the "citation field" Jim is talking about. If you click there, then press F3, the most recently used citation is created in that tag. It's not a particularly good way of entering citations, as it enters only the most recent citation, with only the source number and CD entry - no sureties, Citation Memo, or Reference field entries. Still, if that's all you want, it works. Trouble is, with this bug in certain cases it also deletes another citation in a different tag, so should be avoided until an update with a fix is released.

[Virginia Blakelock 0]

This thread really makes me worry, as I use F3 continuously.

I do not understand exactly what you are saying here Jim.

I "Guess" I am alright, as I open a tag (new or existing), hit F4 then hit F3.

I don't know of any other way to add a citation besides using the (+) or hitting F4.

Where would one find the "citation Field"?

I guess I want to be sure I don't don't use the "wrong" way of adding...

but don't understand what that is, exactly.

Sorry for being confused...

 

The citation 'Field' is on the _Tag Entry Screen_, where your existing citations are listed and you have the buttons '+' and '-'. If you use F3 there, the citation is added directly into that field (this is what you should NOT do for now).

 

If you use F4 or the + button on the Tag Entry Screen, the Citation 'Screen' is opened. This is the screen with the fields for Citation Detail, Citation Memo, and Reference. It is OK to use F3 there or use the Binocs button or type in the source number.

 

Virginia

[dakko 0]

Is this problem corrected in v. 6.05?

 

I read the list of fixes, but I don't understand it enough to know if this issue has been corrected.

 

Thank you.

[Paul Lawrence 0]

Is this problem corrected in v. 6.05?

 

I read the list of fixes, but I don't understand it enough to know if this issue has been corrected.

 

Thank you.

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Yes

[dakko 0]

 

Thanks!

[mikemore 0]

I don't know if this was happening before but I just upgraded to Version 6.06 and noticed it for the first time this morning. If I return to the tag after closing and re-enter, they seem to be there but I hope that they don't disappear later.

[mikemore 0]

As a follow up to my previous message, I seem to be experiencing the loss only when I attempt to entry two sources without closing the Tag Entry screen. They both appear in the Citation entry box at the bottom of the Tag Entry box but the first disappears when I close the Tag Entry box. If I re-open the Tag Entry box, I can again enter one source.

[Bob Velke 0]

We're looking into this and will have an answer soon. Thanks.

[Jim Byram 0]

I seem to be experiencing the loss only when I attempt to entry two sources without closing the Tag Entry screen. They both appear in the Citation entry box at the bottom of the Tag Entry box but the first disappears when I close the Tag Entry box. If I re-open the Tag Entry box, I can again enter one source.

This issue should be fixed in v6.07.000.

[mikemore 0]

Yes, 6.07 did it. Well done and quickly, too. Thanks.

[Karla Huebner 0]

What you are doing is fine. 

On the Tag entry screen, at the bottom, there is a list of citations. That's the "citation field" Jim is talking about. If you click there, then press F3, the most recently used citation is created in that tag. It's not a particularly good way of entering citations, as it enters only the most recent citation, with only the source number and CD entry - no sureties, Citation Memo, or Reference field entries. Still, if that's all you want, it works. Trouble is, with this bug in certain cases it also deletes another citation in a different tag, so should be avoided until an update with a fix is released.

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I think the times I have used this method are when I'm going back and editing a citation. At least, if I'm understanding the description properly. I'm trying to think how I usually do citations, and am pretty sure I mostly press F4.

[camckay 0]

I'm having a serious problem with losing citations. I've been using TMG for maybe two years now, and this is the first citation problem I've had.

 

Here's what I'm trying to accomplish:

I have a published source of family trees which I entered into Family Tree Maker years ago without any citations. I migrated FTM into TMG a couple of years ago, no problem, and now I want to source the entire publication by page number for every single person and event. I entered citations for the first three chapters, which took days. Then I discovered many of the citations from the first chapter were gone, so I re-entered every single one again. Then those, and others earlier entries from this same project were gone. I'm not talking about losing just the page number reference, but the entire citation.

 

Here's how I've been entering the citations (loooooong and tedious process!:

-double-click a person's name,

-click somewhere in the citation box at the bottom

-press the F-3 key to bring up the Master Source citation,

-double-click the maseter source citation,

-enter the page number in the "Citation Detail" box.

 

Is there a limit to how many times the same Master Source can be cited? It appears when a predetermined limit is reached, the program begins purging previous citations to that same source. The reason I say this is, I use the same Master Census Source for multiple citations, and I've never lost one, but each Master Census Source is only referenced a few times, not thousands, like in this current project. If there is a built-in limit, I'd sure like to know what it is, because I don't want to lose any of my extensive Census citations. This is very scary.

 

Thanks,

Carol

[Virginia Blakelock 0]

Carol, are you using the latest version, 6.07?

 

Virginia

[camckay 0]

Carol, are you using the latest version, 6.07?

 

Virginia

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[camckay 0]

Carol, are you using the latest version, 6.07?

 

Virginia

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The program says v. 6.00.000.

[camckay 0]

The program says v. 6.00.000.

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I just upgraded to 6.07.000, but I'm not going to renter all that data again, unless I can get reassurances that the upgrade addressed the issue.

[elevator 0]

I was one of those who had massive problems with disappearing citations, but I am happy to report that since upgrading to 6.07 there have been no further problems for me. I am still backing up on a daily basis though and encourage everyone to do the same.

 

Elev.

 

I just upgraded to 6.07.000, but I'm not going to renter all that data again, unless I can get reassurances that the upgrade addressed the issue.

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