Census data

[jrw 0]

Have persisted with roots 3 over many years. With the coming disappearance of dos (apparently ) in windows vista I have revisted switching to TMG ( a product i have purchased every version of since i think 3.0.

 

When i first visited the issue i found the entry of census data daunting. Census families, the betty frain system, organize by county, state, microfilm number etc.

 

Now it appears to me technically feasible to beginning scanning or downloading scans of all my census material. TMG seems very suited to this as exhibits.

 

The question about census system remains. I was tempted by the description of the Betty Frain system but all the links i can find have the pictures missing.

 

What i want is to be able link folks to a census and have that appear, i would like to attach a scan as an exhibit in some fashion. I THINK what i want is to use the census as a whole for my source so i can see who i have in the 1850 census and where.

 

Does anyone have suggestions or a working link to the Betty Frain system or another workable system? Thinkin now i would prefer to avoid the idea of "census people"

 

John weis

[GenerationGoneBy 0]

John,

 

Betty's system basically assigns a role to each person in the census. I can't remember if she uses a census person for the census, but I don't think she did. What she does is create one census tag for each family. Attach each person to a special role based on where they are in the census. Then create your source. It sounds like you'd rather be a lumper where you have a source for a roll of film and then use the CDs for the individual's information. I am a splitter. I have a source for each head of household. I don't use the CD except to explain something about the source, like "he was listed as age 8, when he was really 12".

 

I saw several links on the page that was broken and I will try and fix those for you. I changed how I organized the page and that is creating the broken links.

 

Once you scan your image, link it to the tag as an exhibit. If you think you might want to have times when an exhibit will print and others won't, you might consider having a tag for the census, then copying it and then change the tag type to a census-IMG tag. These are custom tags.

 

For my census, I have a tag for each year and an IMG tag for each year. They are both in the OTHER Group.

 

Then each person has a census tag, and and IMG tag. They are identical, except the exhibit is attached to the IMG tag and I can decide which exhibits I want to print by selecting or deselecting the tags.

YOu will find that the census work you have already done will come over pretty much as I have described, except for if you have an image already attached, it will be attached to the census tag, not the IMG tag. YOu will have to create those yourself.

 

YOu will be happy with TMG. I am a former Roots user.

 

You might want this file Bettyscensus.doc. It's the doc file Betty sent me for her census system. It didn't translate well to HTML.

Edited January 30, 2007 by GenerationGoneBy

[jrw 0]

Thank you kindly. That is exactly what i am looking for. This represents a major transition for me and since i have a 15k plus name data base i want to consider as many issues as possible before i start transitioning.

 

I have copied most of the census records i have ever used but sadly have them stored in boxes. Additionally when i first started you could get genealogy copies of B/M/D records in minnesota for 10 cents each. I have literally hundreds of them kicking around.

 

What i envision is the following

1. Scanning BMD stuff as TIFF (105 records has taken 1.6 gigs. I have 2 external 500 gig hard drives and have seen an external 1 terrabyte so this should be feasible and increasingly feasible as time passes

2. Scanning/downloading all the census data i have for the families as exhibits. The ancestry site should obviate a lot of the scanning. I havent checked the size of the scans yet

3. Am inclined to be a lumper as to the census source. I know folks who use family units, counties etc. To me it seems this would generate a huge bibliography in my data base without clear purpose

4. I use census data a lot to track families. I really want to be able to see for a family or an individual where and when i found them. I would also like to be able to see conflicts with BMD data to allow me to resolve them.

Accordingly it seems desireable to lump the broad category and split them in the details somehow. I anticipate entering the data as i put the scanned or downloaded census in. This will be labor intensive no matter which way i slice it, and it is what gave me the hesitation the first time

5. I have boxes and boxes of photocopies county histories, family histories, unpublished and published genealogys. Not sure what to do with them. Some (esp the rare ones ) it seems desireable to scan in.

 

As to the census, the system you posted seems good to me for my purposes, but wont know for sure until i commit, which scares me. She says in her text she uses your tags. I wasnt able to find a specific section on your page but it appears on your census page that you created each and every role you found on a census as [R:daughter-in-law] etc.

 

Hope i am on the correct track. Advice appreciated

john weis

Edited January 31, 2007 by jrw

[GenerationGoneBy 0]

Yes, You just need to create the tag and roles and you can copy and paste the sentences off the website. Just be sure you spell the roles the exact same way I did even to capitalization.

[Terry Reigel 0]

As to the census, the system you posted seems good to me for my purposes, but wont know for sure until i commit, which scares me. She says in her text she uses your tags. I wasnt able to find a specific section on your page but it appears on your census page that you created each and every role you found on a census as [R:daughter-in-law] etc.

John,

 

You might want to look at an alternative method of constructing census tags, in my Census Articles. The tags themselves are described in articles linked near that bottom of that page. I think my method is both easier to use and produces better results, but then I'm surely biased.

[Pierce.Reid 0]

john weis said:

 

<<What i envision is the following

1. Scanning BMD stuff as TIFF (105 records has taken 1.6 gigs. I have 2 external 500 gig hard drives and have seen an external 1 terrabyte so this should be feasible and increasibly feasible as time passes...>>

 

Your TIFF files are quite large, and although your hard drives may be large enough for all your images, I presume you will want to back up the data (is that why you have two 500 Gig drives?). With those large TIFF files, it will take a while to back a large number of them up, especially if you are going through a USB port.

 

Have a look at converting the images to a JPEG with a moderate compression. See how small you can get the file while still keeping them readable. The amount of acceptable compression may differ depending on the image - some of those US census pages have a lot of tiny writing which you don't want to distort.

 

Pierce

[jrw 0]

The comments are greatly appreciated. I am a bit dismayed by the size of the task ahead but have years to accomplish it. It seems there are several issues

1. The extent of the bibliography listings. I have copies with notes as to source of [nearly] every census i have used, and some i have not. This must cover half the counties of minnesota alone. I used to list microfilm numbers when i did research at the FHL but lately it seems less and less relevant when i look at sites like ancestry. I am inclined to abbreviate the bibliography in the interest of saving trees and add the specifics to the citation detail. It seems unlikely the foreseeable future will bring a time when census information is not readily and universally available

 

2. The detail in the census entry. If i am understanding Bettys and Terry systems correctly they differ mostly in how the deal with the details. Terry's system in the detailed version uses a basically 4 unified statements for the head of household with the details placed in the memo. Bettys uses a single long form sentence with the details created by the roles for the various individuals ( and accordingly she creates many roles to be filled). The central question is can you anticipate most (or all) of the roles someone might fill on the census in order to avoid changing the sentence. Both seem to allow the census to show on and individual screen with the date of the census. Terry seems to use a much more limited number of roles with more extensive use of the memo to fill in details. Accordingly this system would seem to involve more individualization of the memo as it is written. Correct me if i misundertand. I am still getting used to the idea of Role, Tag. I still have difficult with the statement in the examples (both terry and betty) to copy or create a new census entry. I tried my first last night. I copied the census default and got a pattern census1 which i then attempted to edit to conform to the Betty template. Hopefully that wont destroy any original templates and will allow me to continue experimenting with modified ones for now.

 

3. Scanning is a tricky problem. I am told the most lossless scans are BMP (essentially proprietary windows) or TIFF ( most commonly used in publications). I would like to hope that someday my data would be preserved and even published. My understanding of Jpeg was that you got smaller files but had to accept a lossy format. Is this incorrect?

 

I really appreciate the advice. Wish one of you was local to SLC because i would love to see each system in action.

 

John Weis

[Pierce.Reid 0]

The comments are greatly appreciated. I am a bit dismayed by the size of the task ahead but have years to accomplish it. It seems there are several issues

1. The extent of the bibliography listings. I have copies with notes as to source of [nearly] every census i have used, and some i have not. This must cover half the counties of minnesota alone. I used to list microfilm numbers when i did research at the FHL but lately it seems less and less relevant when i look at sites like ancestry. I am inclined to abbreviate the bibliography in the interest of saving trees and add the specifics to the citation detail. It seems unlikely the foreseeable future will bring a time when census information is not readily and universally available

 

2. The detail in the census entry. If i am understanding Bettys and Terry systems correctly they differ mostly in how the deal with the details. Terry's system in the detailed version uses a basically 4 unified statements for the head of household with the details placed in the memo. Bettys uses a single long form sentence with the details created by the roles for the various individuals ( and accordingly she creates many roles to be filled). The central question is can you anticipate most (or all) of the roles someone might fill on the census in order to avoid changing the sentence. Both seem to allow the census to show on and individual screen with the date of the census. Terry seems to use a much more limited number of roles with more extensive use of the memo to fill in details. Accordingly this system would seem to involve more individualization of the memo as it is written. Correct me if i misundertand. I am still getting used to the idea of Role, Tag. I still have difficult with the statement in the examples (both terry and betty) to copy or create a new census entry. I tried my first last night. I copied the census default and got a pattern census1 which i then attempted to edit to conform to the Betty template. Hopefully that wont destroy any original templates and will allow me to continue experimenting with modified ones for now.

 

3. Scanning is a tricky problem. I am told the most lossless scans are BMP (essentially proprietary windows) or TIFF ( most commonly used in publications). I would like to hope that someday my data would be preserved and even published. My understanding of Jpeg was that you got smaller files but had to accept a lossy format. Is this incorrect?

 

I really appreciate the advice. Wish one of you was local to SLC because i would love to see each system in action.

 

John Weis

John,

1. The purpose of a source citation is to make it easier for someone reading your genealogy information to evaluate your conclusions and to see for themselves, if possible, what you used as evidence. You are right, US and English censuses, and others, see readily available on the Internet, and can be viewed free at many LDS Family History Centers and some libraries. But that may not always be true.

I don't go in for fancy citation structures for my censuses. I provide the basic locating information used by the national archive, and usually the film number used by the FHL. For each census, I create a footnote (not a citation) that reverences Ancestry (if that is where I got it), and then copy the entire citation line from the Ancestry web site, which contains all the information anyone needs. I also indicate that I have the image on file (on my computer). My census entry gives the town location that the census references so others can do an efficient search of the Ancestry database. I will usually note if Ancestry has indexed the entry incorrectly (usually due to problematic handwriting, although sometimes the document clearly has a different spelling than I have found elsewhere).

 

2. My current method of documenting the census is to transcribe most or all of the contents for the family of interest. (Some fields I skip over because they are largely redundant, e.g. marital status for young children, or race, for my entirely white family.) I sometimes add my own comments, such as correcting relationships or other data I feel is wrong, or noting related families living nearby. I identify each individual of interest to their appropriate role, based on the relationship column - in early censuses, everyone other than the Head are just "residents", not their actual social role of wife, child, etc. The one census tag for this document will therefore show up in the Tag list for each participant that is in my data base, but I enter the information only once. I also put an Index entry in the memo field, next to each individual of interest, so that I can create an index entry for the back of my Journal reports. I have one census template that I use for all censuses, both British and American, and as I find I need new roles, when a census taker has been creative with the relationship field, I add it the the template. I also will add a role sentence for that new role, so that if I make an individual in that role "principal", there will be a sentence suitable for the role. For example, if my relative was just a lodger with a family that is not of interest, I will create an individual for the actual Head of Household, but my principal person will be the lodger, and the entry will be introduced in a Journal report as something like "John was a lodger in the household of Jim Smith in the .... census...". In a few cases, I have later found that the head of household was a person of interest, so I would go back and expand the entry to include all the other family members in the house.

 

I will be studying various other methods of entering census information to see if I can glean some useful ideas, but for the time being, I will stick with my present method, since it is quite simple to use.

 

3. Scanned images only have to be as good as you need to reliably read the information on the image. This includes being able to enlarge them on your computer to study the details of any handwriting that is not very clear. You are not trying to expand the eyeball or the wrinkle on the skin to examine a picture in great detail. You are just trying to read the fairly thick lines someone once wrote on a piece of paper. So try creating compressed JPEG files of your documents. Look at the results by enlarging them on your monitor. If you can clearly see all the detail you need to see, try a greater compression, if you feel it would improve your storage requirements. My TIFF scans of several megabytes can usually be compressed to a file of a few hundred kilobytes with no loss in readability.

 

4. You expressed a wish to see various methods in action. Come on the next TMG cruise, and if you express an interest in methods of recording censuses, or any other data, you can probably find other users who would enjoy discussing their methods. A number of people will have laptops so they can show just what their data looks like in TMG. You can also get 15 minutes of an expert's undivided attention to discuss an issue of interest - usually you can arrange a one-on-one with several of the experts (TMG or research interests). Of course in the lectures, questions are welcomed. And you will get a chance to visit some interesting islands.

 

Pierce

[Michael Hannah 0]

Hello John,

 

Welcome to a great genealogy software package. If you would like "yet another" way to enter census data from yet another user you might consider the following.

 

I have two general types of custom census tags, one for enumerations and one for index or soundex records. The general format of my custom census tags has the Head of Household as Principal1 and a census "pseudo" person as Principal2. I have only three roles, one for a spouse, one that is used for all children, and one that is used for all other enumerated individuals in the household. Rather than have multiple roles for different relationships I enter the relationship as a split witness memo element. Finally, each of the two types has three subtypes, one for the actual recorded information, one as a "placeholder" to indicate that I need to find the census record but pre-linked to everyone expected, and one to record that a specific census record does not exist for that household in that place. This gives me six custom tag types: CensusEnum, CensusFind, CensusNil, CensusX, CensusXFind, CensusXNil.

 

Examples of my naming conventions for census "pseudo" people:

 

Given=1920 Census

Surname=USA, Ohio, Washington County

Suffix=EDs 100-124

 

Given=1920 Census Soundex

Surname=USA, Ohio

Suffix=R263-S142

 

A census for a location is linked as Son-Oth with a Father census person for the next larger locale. The mother of the census person is a location "pseudo" person for this location.

 

Rather than including a long discussion of my custom tags in this posting, you can probably guess how I use them, and what goes in each part of both the main and witness split memos, from the sentences for the two main tag types of CensusEnum and CensusX.

 

CensusEnum sentences (which has a transcription of this entry attached to the tag as a text exhibit)

Role=Head (Principal1)

Male: "[M1] was enumerated in the [P2G] in [L] as head of household."

Female: "[M1] was enumerated in the [P2G] in [L] as head of household."

 

Role=Extract (Principal2)

"[:CR:][:CR:][bOLD:][P2F] Census Enumeration[:BOLD] of the household of [bOLD:][M1][:BOLD] in [L] linked to [P1]"

 

Role=spouse

Male: "The [P2G] in [L] enumerated [WM1] in [P1S] household as her husband<.><.>"

Female: "The [P2G] in [L] enumerated [WM1] in [P1S] household as his wife<.><.>"

 

Role=child

"The [P2G] in [L] enumerated [WM1] as [WM3] in the household of [P1]."

 

Role=Witness

"The [P2G] in [L] enumerated [WM1] in the household of [P1]."

 

Role=spouseAssumed (used if the relationship is not explicitly documented in the entry, or if the entry does not include the person's name)

Male: "The [P2G] in [L] enumerated [WM1] in [P1S] household, presumably her husband<.><.>"

Female: "The [P2G] in [L] enumerated [WM1] in [P1S] household, presumably his wife<.><.>"

 

Role=childAssumed (used if the relationship is not explicitly documented in the entry, or if the entry does not include the person's name)

"The [P2G] in [L] enumerated [WM1] presumably as a child of head of household [P1] <.><.>"

 

Role=assumed (used if a relationship is not explicitly documented in the entry, or if the entry does not include the person's name)

"[W] is assumed to be [WM1] who was enumerated in the [P2G] in [L] in the household of [P1]<.><.>"

============================================

 

CensusX sentences

Role=Head(Principal1 if other members of the household are listed with this index entry)

Male: "The [P2] cites the household of [M2] in [L] as [M1]<. he is indexed as><. this index entry includes his wife><. this index entry includes who is presumed to be his wife><. his household index entry also includes><.><.>"

Female: "The [P2] cites the household of [M2] in [L] as [M1]<. she is indexed as><. this index entry includes her husband><. this index entry includes who is presumed to be her husband><. her household index entry also includes><.><.>"

 

Role=Alone(Principal1 if this individual is indexed separately from the household. No witnesses would be linked to a tag using this Principal1 role)

Male: "The [P2] separately indexed [M4] in the household of [M2] in [L] as [M1]."

Female: "The [P2] indexed [M4] in the household of [M2] in [L] as [M1]."

 

Role=Extract(Principal2 if transcription attached as an exhibit)

"[:CR:][:CR:][bOLD:][P2G][:BOLD] entry of the household of [bOLD:][M2][:BOLD] in [L] linked to [P1]"

 

Role=Source(Principal2 if there is no transcription attached)

"[:CR:][:CR:][bOLD:][P2G][:BOLD] entry of the household of [bOLD:][M2][:BOLD] in [L] linked to [P1]"

 

Role=spouse

Male: "The [P2] listed husband [WM1] in [P1S] household index entry in [L] cited as [M1].<.><.>"

Female: "The [P2] listed wife [WM1] in [P1S] household index entry in [L] cited as [M1].<.><.>"

 

Role=child

"The [P2] listed [WM1] as [WM3] in the household index entry of [P1] in [L] cited as [M1].<.><.>"

 

Role=Witness

"The [P2] listed [WM1], indexed in the household of [P1] in [L] cited as [M1]."

 

Role=spouseAssumed (used if the relationship is not explicitly documented in the entry, or if the entry does not include the person's name)

Male: "The [P2] listed [WM1] presumably [P1S] husband in her household index entry in [L] cited as [M1].<.><.>"

Female: "The [P2] listed [WM1] presumably [P1S] wife in his household index in [L] cited as [M1].<.><.>"

 

Role=childAssumed (used if the relationship is not explicitly documented in the entry, or if the entry does not include the person's name)

"The [P2] listed [WM1], presumably as a child of head of household [P1] in [L] cited as [M1]."

 

Role=assumed (used if a relationship is not explicitly documented in the entry, or if the entry does not include the person's name)

"The [P2] is assumed to list [WM1], indexed in the household of [P1] in [L] cited as [M1]."

============================================

 

Hope this gives you ideas,

Edited February 2, 2007 by mjh

[jrw 0]

All the input appreciated. To date have scanned 350 BMD stuff. Working well. Going to switch to pictures to stave off boredom.

 

All the census stuff has been studied to the point where i have to try something.

 

1. Created Betty Frains master sources. Seemed to go ok. just copied each one to make the next once i had one correct

2. Made Betty Frains Census name tag

3. Made a cleaned flag

4. Betty references teresa's roles, but gives no explanation how to do. What seemed to me to be the system was to go in tag type and add roles to the default census tag type as many as i could find on her page.

 

I then copied that template and modified the sentence for each year as recommended on teresa elliots page. Not sure if that was correct but i ended up with a tag type for each year census. Started getting confused and decided to post when i hit the 1870 census for which she lists no wife role but 2 other sentences, a witness and a neighbor. Not sure how to approach adding these. Did I make an error earlier or am I on the correct track?

 

John Weis

[GenerationGoneBy 0]

NO, YOu are on the right track so far. For the 1870 you can copy the 1850 or 1860 sentences. There is no wife role, since we don't know for sure the woman listed was a wife, so she gets the role of Household member 01.

 

Sounds like you are making great progress and learning a lot along the way.

 

The reason for the tag type for each census year is that you can easily see which years you need to find, and you can have different sentences for each year. This gets rid of a lot of repetition. For now, they may seem similar, but you can edit them to make them a little more interesting as you go along, plus as you add data, they will get better as well.

 

The big thing is if you copy sentences from my site, make sure you spell the role the exact same way as I did, or the sentences won't work correctly. That is fairly easy to fix, but it can drive you crazy in the mean time.

[Terry Reigel 0]

There is no wife role, since we don't know for sure the woman listed was a wife, so she gets the role of Household member 01.

I would not agree with this approach, but that's probably because Teresa and I differ on why we create a census tag in the first place. It seems to me the key thing to figure out as you define your census methods is just what is each part of your system supposed to do.

 

For instance, one could create the census tag to record just what the census record tells us. With that objective, I'd think you would want to create the tag to as accurately as possible record just what the record says, and nothing more. Teresa's usage above seems intended to do that - the 1870 census doesn't say what the relationship between the members of the household are, so she doesn't have the tag assert anything that's not in that record.

 

On the other hand, one might envision the census tag as a way to describe where the family members were living at a point in time, which ones were there, and any other interesting facts that are available (like other relatives living nearby, presence of boarders or servants, value of holdings, etc.) With this approach, the objective is to relate as much information as possible, and you probably would want to do that in a way that makes interesting enough reading that your relatives don't but down your report after the second page. With this approach, some details in the census record are omitted from the census tag, and instead used as sources in other tags.

 

As you might guess, this latter approach is the one I favor. To get back to the point here, since we likely know from other evidence that the woman listed second in the household is the wife of the head of household, I'd say so in the census tag. Likewise, I'd list their children who are present in the record, and declare they were the sons and daughters of the head of household, even though the census itself doesn't say that.

 

To me, it all depends on exactly why you are creating the tag in the first place.

[GenerationGoneBy 0]

Terry,

 

Yes, we disagree, but I will gladly let you be wrong. LOL

 

Seriously, that is the beauty of so many ways to do things is that we can pick the method that works best for us. Of course, it's a nightmare when you are trying to pick one without even knowing what does work for you best.

 

My census would still list the wife and children, it just wouldn't state how they are related, since the census doesn't tell us. Later censuses do, and there the relationship is mentioned.

I do agree with Terry on the point that the census is more than just a snap shot of this family on this day. Just this week, I found out my mother-in-law's grandfather was a grocer. I don't think she even knew that. I use that information to create other tags about the person to make the information more readable and to build a life story.

 

Tonight I found a woman who died, and was enumerated on the census as dead. HOw cool is that

[jrw 0]

Actually i cut and pasted the roles from your site. i did not include the brackets because it looked like they were identification for a code

jrw

 

In the earlier census you have 2 sentences in addition to the principal. a neighbor and a witness. Do you put them BOTH in the wife slot or just one?

jrw

Edited February 11, 2007 by jrw

[jrw 0]

OK Added ( I think) my first census entry today. Several issues I am unsure about came up.

 

1. First - The census name tag. Seem to have created it for everyone but the age portion does not seem to be working. This was in line 7 and it had a default name thing. I typed age in the box and the box on the tag data entry shows as age, but it doesnt show that age on the person view, rather it shows the actual age. I assume this means I did not succeed in getting the age box correct in the default tag.

 

2. When I make the census name tag for the 1930 census for everyone it askes me for a citation. I assume I ignore that because I will later cite the census as part of the census-1930 entry?

 

3. Next in the Census-1930 tag entry box I get that the upper left corner under tag type i should switch the top to r:head of family and i think on her example where is says enumerator, i swich that to r:wife? She has place style as county/state only. In my tag entry it says US place name? I assume i leave that. Finally in memo she uses 4 pipe commands before the text. Assume i do that?

 

 

4. For additing the children i just chose add witness and the r:son and r:daughter i think. In her example she has "household member" with no r:household member like the tags teresa's page suggested.

 

5. Next she says to run a journal report. I assume this is how i see if i got the data entry correct. Just not sure how to run a journal report and not sure how to limit it to one family?

 

6. Lastly for now, defaut sureties for census should all be 2?

John Weis

 

One other question came up. I downloaded the census image from ancestry and saved it in a file. How would I link this to the census tag and would I link it just for the head of household entry or for each witness entry?

jrw

Edited February 12, 2007 by jrw

[GenerationGoneBy 0]

1) No it won't change the age on the PV. That is calculated by the birth tag. Sounds like you did it right if you are seeing it on the tag screen for the census.

2) I just ignore the name tag citation. You can put the census in there, but to me it seems like extra work. My name tags don't print separately, so I don't see a need to cite them.

 

3) YOu will want the role to match what the role on the census is, so for Wife, you would select the role of wife. The pipes divide the memo fields. Four pipes would mean your census is using M3. If you are using M you wouldn't need any pipes.

 

4) THat is correct. The 1930 census gives relationships, so the children would have roles. The 1870 census doesn't, so I just use household member01, household member02, etc.

5)Go to Reports>Journal. You can set the number of Generations. You can also add this to a custom toolbar, so you can easily run the report any time you want to check data.

6) I use 3 for the census event, and then when I cite the census for the birth date and place, or occupation, I use 2.

 

6) Open the census tag. There is a small camera in the right hand corner. Click on it. On the screen that opens, RIGHT CLICK on the blank area, and it will allow you to add an exhibit. This will add it to everyone attached to your newly created census tag.

[jgr 0]

You might want to look at an alternative method of constructing census tags, in my Census Articles. The tags themselves are described in articles linked near that bottom of that page. I think my method is both easier to use and produces better results, but then I'm surely biased.

I'm in the process of learning your method (and I'm very grateful to you for putting the work in on this!!) but have run into a snag. I'd like to have the report for the parents include the memo info for the witness children (Father and Mother were enumerated on that census at this location... Living with them were their children Son, age 12, born TX, attending school, Daughter, age 10, born OK, attending school and Son, age 5, born OK). The info in bold is in the witness memo fields, but I can't quite figure out how to write the sentences to get that to appear with the parents. Help???

 

Thanks.

[jrw 0]

Two things make me concerned I have made and error somewhere.

 

1. When i print the report for John Weis (who i found on the 1930 census for my test) the report only reads

"He appeared on the census of the 19 Apr 1930 in the household of John M. Weis (24) and Anna Weis (25) at Roscoe, Stearns, MN.

 

To me this seems different that the listing in Bettys section on Walter Penn where it reads "Walter L. Penn (given age 41) was listed as the head of a family on the 1850 census recorded the 30 August 1850 in Alexandria, Alexandria Count, Virginia. Mary E. Penn (given age 36) , Ada R. Penn (......) were all listed as household members.

 

I seem to be missing the given age part and the sentence is different. This may be because i cut and pasted the sentence in teresa guide in, and perhaps that sentence is structured differently. This also may be because i cut and pasted the census sentence in principal tag for census rather than in R:head of family. Should i paste it in both ie can someone have 2 roles or just use Principal for the {usual} role of the hubbie

 

2. the given age statement doesnt appear in either the PV or the report. I assume this means somehow i have the census name part of this thing wrong. This i set up under Tools - master style list

 

Label 1 (Title) output template

[Title][GivenName][surname][suffix]

Label 2 (prefix) Surname sort template

 

Label 3 (Given Name) Surname display template

 

Label 4 (PreSurname) Given Sort template

 

Label 5 (Surname) Given name display

 

Label 6 Suffix) Children/siblings display template

 

label 7 (age {typed in by me, used to read other name})

 

Label 8 (sortsurname

 

Label 9 (sortGiven)

 

When i edited label 7 to be age as described i was unable to figure out where to make it pull the age i entered in. Her template seems to show age as a default choice

 

John Weis

 

OK figured out 2nd question. I need to add the following (given age [Age]) to the first field

jrw

Edited February 13, 2007 by jrw

[GenerationGoneBy 0]

John,

 

Looks like Betty and I probably use different sentences. IF you like hers, you will want to use it.

 

On the age problem, you have to put (given age 25) in the data field if that is what you want to print out.

[jrw 0]

Actually i thought i used yours ). I copied it into the principal role field. Should i have copied into the R:head of family?

 

On the ages thing. I did put it in the field on the name-1930 census field 7 which shows as age. just doesnt seem to display ( figured this out, see above: need to insert (given age [Age]) in the first field

 

john

 

 

Hmm. If i change the top left box on the census 1930 tag to principal it prints he appears in the 1930 census in the family of unknown and the rest of teh sentence is correct in your format. When the top box is principal the bottom box is principal. If i modify the top box to R:head of family then get the incorrect sentence, but can put the wife in the other role.

 

The problem seems to be in the 1930 census tag. There are 2 choices in the upper corner, and the place to put the changed sentence. It seems there are two places i could put the sentence you suggested, either as the principal sentence or the R:head of family, the male sentence. Thinking that I should put the R:husband in the upper left and the r:wife in the lower of the two boxes, with the sentence in the R:head of family. The problem is the sentence has the male pronoun his in it. Not sure if i should insert the sentence in the principal or the r:husband template. going to go check your sentence page again now

jrw

 

By adding a r:wife witness i can get it to say unknown appeared in the 1930 census with his wife and ....

 

I can add him as a witness but then he cant be a principal. If i make him a principal i apparently cant assign him a r:head of family as a witness. I suspect if i added him as a witness and could figure a principal the sentence would print corrently but not sure of the distinction between principal and witness now

 

jrw

Edited February 14, 2007 by jrw

[GenerationGoneBy 0]

Yes, my sentences only use Custom Roles, not the Standard Principal and Witness roles.. So you need to put the sentence in the Head of Household role. Just ignore the Principal and Witness roles.

Then put the Man into P1. On the button that says PRINCIPAL, click on the down arrow and select HEAD OF HOUSEHOLD. YOu can put the woman as P2, or as a witness. That is entirely up to you.

Each role has two sentence slots. I only use the TOP one which if for the male, UNLESS, the role is always for a female, then use the bottom one which is for females.

[jrw 0]

Yup. I guessed correct that the sentence goes in R:Head of Household. The problem i am running into now is that if i assign the husband as a witness with role head of household, I am unable to change the upper corner button from principal to R:head of household as i get the error message that the person is already listed as a witness. If i do not assign him the R:Head of household as a witness, the printout shows unknown as the head of household.

 

BTW thanks for taking time to answer all these beginner questions

 

jrw

 

ie how do i assign the man the r:head of household and put him in the principal window without an error message that he is listed as a witness

Edited February 14, 2007 by jrw

[GenerationGoneBy 0]

Yes, first remove him as a witness, then attach him as P1 and then change the role to Head of Household.

 

You are making progress. It will get easier. <G>

[jrw 0]

That is how i have it set up now. With the top box R:Head of family and him selected. record 1:24 and it shows his name. When i print the journal all i get is in the household of unknown. Getting tempted to copy the journal printout and paste it except some of the folks are still alive

jrw

 

Going to have to afk for an hour for sons basketball game. thanks for the real time help tonight.

Edited February 14, 2007 by jrw

[jrw 0]

Tried redoing my head of family role. So far no dice. Continued to use cut and paste method.

 

As I was working a question occured to me. How do you handle it if wife is the head of the family. Do you restrict the sentence structure listed to men only or do you manually edit the prounouns?

 

jrw