TMG and Ancestory.com

[hollyflewin 0]

OK, I have a theory about Ancestory.com and TMG.

I need opinions before I proceed.

 

I have a branch of my family I have traced in Ancestory.com only using the census records. No trees submitted by others or any other records, strictly census records. I was looking to collect all the census records I was missing for that branch of the family. I've now exported this file from Ancestory.com to a GED file. If I import the GED to an empty project, then merge the two projects matching entries I've already made. Importing the correct census data as sources along with the people I import/merge.

 

Is this a good idea or a bad idea?

[jgr 0]

OK, I have a theory about Ancestory.com and TMG. I need opinions before I proceed.

 

I have a branch of my family I have traced in Ancestory.com only using the census records. No trees submitted by others or any other records, strictly census records. I was looking to collect all the census records I was missing for that branch of the family. I've now exported this file from Ancestory.com to a GED file. If I import the GED to an empty project, then merge the two projects matching entries I've already made. Importing the correct census data as sources along with the people I import/merge.

 

Is this a good idea or a bad idea?

Holly, I was waiting to see if anyone else chimed in who had experience with this. (I was hoping someone else had tried it!) It seems in theory like a perfectly sound concept, and you'll be able to test it thoroughly in the empty project before you try to merge the projects.The one hitch I can think of might be the format of the source reference from Ancestry versus the source format you're already using in your existing project.

[Terry Reigel 0]

While I've used Ancestry's great census records extensively, I've not tried recording family data on Ancestry and then exporting it as a GEDCOM file. So the following is based on my expectations of how that would work rather than on actual experience.

 

I'd not be inclined to favor this method, primarily because I expect it would result in poorly sourced records as well as omitting valuable details. For example, does Ancestry allow you to record, and then include in the GEDCOM:

 

1. Sources for the parent/child relationships? Does it allow you record whether the census explicitly states the relationship, or you inferred it from a person's presence in a household? Since relationship sources are the key issue in a genealogy (without them your don't actually have a family tree) I think this is very important.

 

2. Name variations? Can you record the name as it appears in each census, so you can later see just where the names you finally use came from? And compare with what you may find later in other sources?

 

3. Birth date and place details? Since census records generally record ages (which often don't totally agree from census to census) rather than dates, can you record what the census actually says about ages, and rarely dates, and places, to support the dates and places you enter for births?

 

4. Marriage status and dates? Does it allow you to record whether the census states a couple was married or simply implies it by listing them together? Since the census shows, at best, number of years married, does it allow you to record that when you convert it to an approximate date?

 

5. Census place and enumeration dates? Can you record the location of the residence as it's recorded in the census, including house number and street where available? The date of enumeration?

 

6. Other personal details? Does it allow you to record occupations, immigration and naturalization information, home or farm ownership, etc.?

 

7. Data entry conventions - does importing from Ancestry allow you to control how data elements are entered? How do titles (Dr., Capt.) or suffixes (Jr., III) get entered in names? Nicknames? How are places entered - do township, town, county get in the right fields? Are abbreviations used or not as you prefer?

 

I record items 1-4 in the Citation Detail when I cite the census as a source. I record items 5 & 6 in Census and other tags, citing the census. Item 7 is a matter of whether the data ends up entered according to your personal data entry standards.

 

You could, of course, import the GEDCOM and then edit it to correct all the omissions or entry "errors." But in my mind, it's better to enter the data directly into TMG from the census images. I think you are less likely to miss important details that way.

 

For more on my suggestions for entry of census data, see my article on Managing Census Data.

 

Finally, the importing process should only be considered if few if any of the people involved already exist in your date. If they do already exist, importing will produce duplicates of each of these people in your data set. You will then have to manually merge each pair of duplicate people. Then, you will have to manually transfer the citations from one copy of each duplicate tag to the other, and delete one copy of each tag. This will include at least name and relationship tags, but may include also birth, marriage, and many others - a major clean-up process.

[hollyflewin 0]

first of all...............argh, i lost my replay i had written....hate it when i do that

 

jgr and terry thanks for the thoughts, all are good.

i thought at first i was sitting out in left field by myself.

i am still in the experimental stage of my imports/merge

 

i have limited my experimentations to small groups, no more than mother/father and children.

limiting the infor i import/merge to only census data.

so far the sources and citations seem to good.

i don't see any problems, but i just tried a few groups to start.

merging is not a problem since the groups are so small

wait till i hit a family with 19 kids, i might change my mind on that

i like that i can save an image of the census document and attach.

i think that was one of my more driving forces to try this.

the lack of copies i had of certain censuses.

 

i have found errors in the ancestry.com databases

mostly typos/misspelled names.

i am not using any oneworldtree data

i have found several errors there

i may mark the info as interesting, but not using it for this experiment at all.

i've submitted corrections and they do show up about 24 hours later.

 

this is still very experimental, so "kids don't try this at home"

opinions and thoughts are greatly appreciated

 

thanks again

hf

[Terry Reigel 0]

i like that i can save an image of the census document and attach.

i think that was one of my more driving forces to try this.

the lack of copies i had of certain censuses.

Why do you have to import a GEDCOM and merge to save copies of the census images?

[Pierce.Reid 0]

I agree with Terry's suggestion that the best way to update your data base from a GEDCOM is manually. Otherwise you are likely to create inconsistencies in your data and your style. The manual entry also gives you a better insight into the data you are adding.

 

I think it would be very reasonable to put the GEDCOM into a separate data set, both to view the information and possibly copy-and-paste parts that you agree with.

 

I also recommend saving the indexed information Ancestry provides. I simply copy the text part of Individual Record, usually of the Head, to a Notepad window. I also "View others on this page" to get the index entries for others in the family, and copy them to the same window. I then save this file for reference when typing in the census detail. In some cases, I copy parts of the file (e.g. long, unusual place names) into my data base. I also have all the information I need for my citation.

 

The index information is really another pair of eyes trying to decipher the census taker's handwriting. The indexer may be working on a better image than you get, or may be more familiar with the census taker's style. On the other hand, you may know your family names better than the indexer and you can see that the name as written could just as easily be the name you are familiar with. I record the data as I read it on the census, noting where I think the census taker made a mistake. If the Ancestry index is not correct, whether because of the census taker or the indexer misreading the image, I note the error in my citation.

 

Ancestry is a wonderful source of family history information but you need to learn how to make the best use of it.

 

Pierce

[joanmc 0]

Why do you have to import a GEDCOM and merge to save copies of the census images?

 

Never mind why, I'm interested in how? Where do you find the ability to save a gedcom of the census info?

 

That being said, I must admit to wondering why also......I save the image & simply do the entry from that then check with the 'report' to see if my transcription agrees with it, particularly if I've had some problems with the handwriting.

 

Joan

[Kaiyote 0]

Never mind why, I'm interested in how? Where do you find the ability to save a gedcom of the census info?

 

Are you asking how to export a tree from Ancestry.com to a GEDCOM? It's under Tools>>Manage my Tree.

 

If you're asking how to get a GEDCOM of the Census, consider this:

Ancestry.com has indexed the Census, and allows you to attach each individual's index entry to their record, along with the image of the Census. This can then be exported to a GEDCOM.

It's not actually a GEDCOM of the entire Census. Also, only the fields they index are included (typically Name, relation to HOH, age, birthplace, occasionally the occupation, etc.) - you would have to manually enter the remainder of the fields.

[tkmcpike 0]

Are you asking how to export a tree from Ancestry.com to a GEDCOM? It's under Tools>>Manage my Tree.

 

If you're asking how to get a GEDCOM of the Census, consider this:

Ancestry.com has indexed the Census, and allows you to attach each individual's index entry to their record, along with the image of the Census. This can then be exported to a GEDCOM.

It's not actually a GEDCOM of the entire Census. Also, only the fields they index are included (typically Name, relation to HOH, age, birthplace, occasionally the occupation, etc.) - you would have to manually enter the remainder of the fields.

 

I imported a GEDCOM of my Ancestry.com Tree into TMG v7. It included a URL to the Image of the Census in the Source box, but it didn't import or download any Census images. Is there a way to do this automatically?

 

Thanks

[Roy_Delos_Reyes 0]

OK, I have a theory about Ancestory.com and TMG.

I need opinions before I proceed.

 

I have a branch of my family I have traced in Ancestory.com only using the census records. No trees submitted by others or any other records, strictly census records. I was looking to collect all the census records I was missing for that branch of the family. I've now exported this file from Ancestory.com to a GED file. If I import the GED to an empty project, then merge the two projects matching entries I've already made. Importing the correct census data as sources along with the people I import/merge.

 

Is this a good idea or a bad idea?

 

How interesting! I was just thinking about doing the same thing except I'd be starting from scratch so no need for later merges, etc.

 

I was wondering just how much cleanup would be needed on the sources that are gedcomed into TMG7.

 

I was thinking about using it on several unsourced gedcoms I've gotten over the years and never really had time to look into. Most are for collateral lines that aren't really needed in my main file but would be nice to have.

[Pierce.Reid 0]

How interesting! I was just thinking about doing the same thing except I'd be starting from scratch so no need for later merges, etc.

 

I was wondering just how much cleanup would be needed on the sources that are gedcomed into TMG7.

 

I was thinking about using it on several unsourced gedcoms I've gotten over the years and never really had time to look into. Most are for collateral lines that aren't really needed in my main file but would be nice to have.

 

Roy,

The amount of cleanup of source information you need depends on how satisfied you are with whatever comes through the Gedcom. Or maybe just as important, how satisfied others would be with the way the information is presented. Note also that the proper source information for data from Ancestry should include the full archival reference, so someone else could use another repository (e.g. another on-line census provider, or the Family History Library, or the government archive) to find the same record.

 

I have never considered using someone else's source format unless I reviewed it and agreed it is as good as I could produce. In any case I would manually put the source information into my data base.

 

I would never just dump someone else's data into my data base. All the data goes in manually. At most, I would copy and paste selected words from another file to put them in my data base.

 

Pierce