Automatic witness to event

[Guest ProudFossil]

Assume we have a custom event tag with five roles, four general and one witness. In the Tag Type Definition window they are listed in this order: Role 1, Role 2, Role 3, Principal, Witness. I have noticed that in the Tag Entry window if I select Role 1 as the 'principal', Role 1 is automatically given as the 'other principal'. If I select Role 2 as the 'principal', Role 3 is automatically given as the 'other principal'. Similarly if I select Role 3 as the 'principal', then 'Principal' becomes the 'other principal'. Am I correct in assuming there is a different set of rules for selecting the 'other principal' for the first role in the list as compared to all the other roles?

 

Here is where it really gets confusing.

If I select Role 2 as the 'principal' and assign an individual to it and also put Role 2 in the 'other principal' without an individual assigned to it, TMG reverts the 'other principal' back to Role 3. I assume TMG will not allow the same role in both the 'principal' and 'other principal' slots except for the first role in the list.

 

Any clarifications or comments are appreciated.

 

Thank you

Mike

[Terry Reigel 0]

Assume we have a custom event tag with five roles, four general and one witness. In the Tag Type Definition window they are listed in this order: Role 1, Role 2, Role 3, Principal, Witness. I have noticed that in the Tag Entry window if I select Role 1 as the 'principal', Role 1 is automatically given as the 'other principal'.

Actually, you don't have to assign the first principal to Role1 - the principals by default are automatically both assigned the first role on the list.

If I select Role 2 as the 'principal', Role 3 is automatically given as the 'other principal'.

I find this is only true if you first assign the role Principal to both principals. The rule is that both principals have to either be assigned the role of Principal, or both must be assigned other roles. So, if you have both principals assigned the Principal, and then assign the first one Role2, the other one is automatically assigned the next role on the list (excluding Principal).

Similarly if I select Role 3 as the 'principal', then 'Principal' becomes the 'other principal'.

I can't make this happen. My experince is that you can't have one principal assigned to a non-Principal role and the other assigned the role of Principal.

Am I correct in assuming there is a different set of rules for selecting the 'other principal' for the first role in the list as compared to all the other roles?

Not so far as I can tell.

Here is where it really gets confusing.

If I select Role 2 as the 'principal' and assign an individual to it and also put Role 2 in the 'other principal' without an individual assigned to it, TMG reverts the 'other principal' back to Role 3.

This is true only if you start with both principals assigned the role of Principal. In that case, as I said above, when you assign a different role to one principal the other is automatically changed to the next role on the list.

I assume TMG will not allow the same role in both the 'principal' and 'other principal' slots except for the first role in the list.

Not so. You can assign the two principals any role you like, the same or different, with two exceptions - 1) they have to either both be Principal or neither can be, and 2) you cannot assign the standard role of Witness.

 

I assign both principals the same role all the time in my customized marriage tag - see my article on Multiple Marriages

[GenerationGoneBy 0]

Also, If you want a certain role to always default to the P1 Possition when a tag is opened, go to the Master Tag Type List, and select the tag. On the roles and sentences tab, beside the ROLES, is a up and down arrow. You can move the roles around to fit your needs. Since I rarely use the Principal and Witness roles, I moved them to the bottom of all my lists. In fact I only use them, if they are the only role in a tag. Once I create a custom role, they are delegated to bottom status. You can sort the roles alphabetically, by some criteria of who you think is most important, by how they are listed in the document type (like the census), by sex...

[Guest ProudFossil]

Thank you Terry and Teresa for the quick replies. I was basically looking for confirmation on what I had seen.

 

For clarification I do have a couple of very custom tags which have no similar tags in the standard ones. These tags have several roles and I use them extensively. I do have the roles listed in the Tag Definition window by the "importance" or "frequency of use" with Principal at the next to bottom and Witness at the bottom of the list.

 

Whenever I select the tag for data entry the topmost role is selected for both principal one and other principal. To duplicate the "select Role 3 and Principal is placed in other principal" action (the third comment by Terry) set the list of roles as Role 1 at the top, then Role 2, then Role 3, then Principal as the fourth role in the list, with Witness at the bottom or fifth location. Select Role 3 for principal one and you will find Principal given for the other principal. You have to click on OK to save the tag at which time Principal is placed in the other principal slot.

 

Comment four regarding a different set of rules for the top role in the list and all the other roles alludes to the fact that if you select the top role (which is automatically selected when you start the tag entry) then then top role is placed in other principal. Selecting any other role for principal one will result in the next role in the list being placed in other principal. This does have the appearance of a different set of rules governing the relationship between the roles in the principal slots.

 

And for comment six I was not very clear in what I meant. You can assign the same role to both principals IF you also assign the principals to two different individuals. If you assign role x to both principal 1 and also to other principal you have to assign an individual to principal 1 and another individual to other principal in order to have both principals with the same role.

 

Another interesting aspect of this. If you assign the bottom role to principal 1 TMG will place the third role in the list in other principal.

 

None of this is of any real importance but is interesting in seeing how TMG has been set up.

 

Again thank you for your comments.

 

Mike

[Terry Reigel 0]

Thank you Terry and Teresa for the quick replies.

You're welcome.

Whenever I select the tag for data entry the topmost role is selected for both principal one and other principal. To duplicate the "select Role 3 and Principal is placed in other principal" action (the third comment by Terry) set the list of roles as Role 1 at the top, then Role 2, then Role 3, then Principal as the fourth role in the list, with Witness at the bottom or fifth location. Select Role 3 for principal one and you will find Principal given for the other principal. You have to click on OK to save the tag at which time Principal is placed in the other principal slot.

OK, I see it now. It only occurs if you leave the second principal empty, and after you close the tag entry screen. I think that's a little bug - I don't think it should do that.

And for comment six I was not very clear in what I meant. You can assign the same role to both principals IF you also assign the principals to two different individuals.

Well, yes... if you don't enter two different individuals in a tag then three really isn't a second role, is there?

[GenerationGoneBy 0]

You can not assign a person to the same tag twice, no matter what role you pick or whether the person is a principal or witness. You have to assign it to two different people.

[jeffpiper 0]

Also, If you want a certain role to always default to the P1 Possition when a tag is opened, go to the Master Tag Type List, and select the tag. On the roles and sentences tab, beside the ROLES, is a up and down arrow. You can move the roles around to fit your needs.

Thanks for this Theresa. I'd never thought of it but it's ideal on my census tags where P1 is always Head of Houshold and marriages where P1 is Groom.