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strathglass

TMG7 vs. the competion? Stability?

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I have FTM 2005 (and had several earlier versions). I just started looking at reviews to see if there was anything better.

I haven't found a lot of informative reviews to be honest.

But some I did find suggested TMG was pretty good.

 

My question to actual users of TMG who have also used other programs like FTM:

How does TMG compare? Is it really better?

(I've heard that the db [database] is more sophisticated, not so hap-hazard as the one in FTM.)

(I've also heard its quite fully featured compared to the competition. And that it has a bit of a steeper learning curve [which doesn't bother me at all, FYI].)

 

Speaking about the db though, I see from another thread that it looks like TMG7 is using Foxpro.

Isn't that kind of a dated solution? (Since Micro$oft is no longer supporting Foxpro.)

That would also limit you know to XP/Vista since Foxpro doesn't even run on other platforms now.

Just trying to get a feel for how well designed and put together this s/w is.

Ideally it will be very robust and portable! (Unfortunately I see the program only runs on Microsoft OSs.)

 

And finally how stable is this new TMG7 release? I see a lot of threads here that imply maybe it has a few more bugs than I'd like.

But then maybe it is still very usable and the problems are rare and not serious? I'd like some feedback on this too if possible.

 

Regards,

strathglass

 

PS: I plan to give the 30 day trial a spin, so that will help me form some opinions of my own.

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I am sure there are others far more qualified to answer your question than me; but I have used TMG for a very long time and also tried a variety of other programs. One thing is clear to me: as far customizability, source tracking and ability to record any data, TMG is far beyond any other genealogy program I have tried. You can make TMG register any data you can dream of, and it does so just beautifully. I have also found that the reporting and charting engine is at least on par, and in many instances better, with other poular genealogy programs out there.

 

I have also found that (on my computer at least) TMG is very stable and I have only had a few crashes after upgrading to TMG v7, none of which has resulted in data loss.

 

I know there have at times been rather heated discussions about the FoxPro platform. It is a dying platform and the next generation of Windows operating systems may require a migration to a different DBMS. Also, the program is tragically lacking in its multiuser capabilities and it is almost impossible for a team of users to collaborate on one single project, but many other solutions have that limitation as well. I have solved this problem by using another web based software for that part of my research and I find it works good for me.

 

All in all, I firmly believe that at this time there are no better genealogy programs than TMG, as long as one takes the time to learn to use it's more powerful features.

 

Ken.

 

I have FTM 2005 (and had several earlier versions). I just started looking at reviews to see if there was anything better.

I haven't found a lot of informative reviews to be honest.

But some I did find suggested TMG was pretty good.

 

My question to actual users of TMG who have also used other programs like FTM:

How does TMG compare? Is it really better?

(I've heard that the db [database] is more sophisticated, not so hap-hazard as the one in FTM.)

(I've also heard its quite fully featured compared to the competition. And that it has a bit of a steeper learning curve [which doesn't bother me at all, FYI].)

 

Speaking about the db though, I see from another thread that it looks like TMG7 is using Foxpro.

Isn't that kind of a dated solution? (Since Micro$oft is no longer supporting Foxpro.)

That would also limit you know to XP/Vista since Foxpro doesn't even run on other platforms now.

Just trying to get a feel for how well designed and put together this s/w is.

Ideally it will be very robust and portable! (Unfortunately I see the program only runs on Microsoft OSs.)

 

And finally how stable is this new TMG7 release? I see a lot of threads here that imply maybe it has a few more bugs than I'd like.

But then maybe it is still very usable and the problems are rare and not serious? I'd like some feedback on this too if possible.

 

Regards,

strathglass

 

PS: I plan to give the 30 day trial a spin, so that will help me form some opinions of my own.

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I used FTM, but so long ago that I'm not sure my experince provides a valid comparison. The best I can do is suggest you look at my Why TMG? article for the reasons I find TMG the best available product.

 

As to the issue of the underlying database, I'm simply not knowledgable enough to comment.

 

Yes, a number of users have found a variety of issues with version 7.0. Many are users errors or failing to understand they needed to reset various options they had long forgotten upon moving to v. 7, but others are real issues. Some of those are recognized bugs that are being fixed, and a few have yet to be run down. On the other hand, many users are using v. 7 with no issues. I've been using it for my own data since before the public release and have never seen any of those obscure issues. I believe it's very stable for a ".00" release, and will be better as updates are released.

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This is going to sound like blasphemy on this TMG message board, but take a good look at Legacy Family Tree software. Most genealogy magazines and software evaluation sites list both products at the top of their lists, and each have their virtues.

 

First, let me say I am a long-time TMG user, since version 3. I have a lot of time and work invested in the product and I know it pretty well and would never give it up.

 

I first downloaded a trial version of Legacy, then bought it, originally as a "cheap" (about $30) add-on for things that TMG just can't do. However, the longer I have used it, the more I like it. It is a very sophisticated, well-supported product. Although I still consider TMG is my main database.

 

I got Legacy first to handle some simple family requests: My extended family wanted a Birthday Book and Anniversary Book. Base product TMG does not parse dates by month and day, so these kinds of reports are impossible to create. (Legacy's newest version has date reminder flags built-in, which is neat.)

 

Legacy has a very nice "To Do Reminder List" that is easy to maintain and appears on a Home page when you start the product. - - I use it all of the time and wish and wish TMG could do better that the extremely mediocre thing they've got. (TMG has a klug-y Research Log; data goes in - awkwardly - and it is a pain in the neck to get out and maintain. I hate it.)

 

TMG has absolute, unmatched reporting flexibility. If you are doing genealogical research for hire, TMG is what you want. - - However, flexibility comes with a price. Most stock reports need to be customized "out-of-the-box" as it were - and to be completely honest, it is why many newer genealogists prefer inferior products like FamilyTreeMaker, and such to TMG. Legacy has many more standard reports - I think about 130 or so - that someone put more thought into than TMG's before customization. (Die-hard TMG users will disagree.) I also like the way images can be inserted into many stock Legacy's reports, as well.

 

Legacy has some neat capabilities, for example, combining variant location spellings, and expanding and abbreviating place names not possible in TMG.

 

Time Line Reports - real graphical time lines for people - is a very neat feature not in TMG.

 

Legacy's web site creation tool is included in the base product. It does not match John Cardinal's Second Site, but his product is an add-on, not in base TMG.

 

Legacy has a Research Guidance Tool that has no equivalent in TMG. Although I do not use it because I am so many years down the road and much of my research is French, friends of mine say they like it a lot.

 

Legacy comes in a number of foreign language versions, and four English versions (Canada, Australia, U.S. and UK), but TMG, I think has more, including Deutsch and Espanol. (FYI: Legacy's "official release" foreign language versions are Dansk, Flaams/Nederlands, Nynork, and Bokmal. - - All others, including Deutsch and Espanol, are not official version. The French Legacy version release is not "official", but it is in pretty good shape. I use it with the U.S. version. The Brazilian Portuguese version is bare bones and not recommended. I can't comment on others.)

 

I am only hitting on a few things that come to my head first. There are very good reasons to choose TMG. Even if it is your choice, I think Legacy Family Tree makes a nice add-on, even for simply exporting GEDCOMs and producing some alternative reporting and looking at your data another way.

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Thanks all for the helpful feedback (especially efcharvet).

Keep it coming if anyone has anything else to add.

(Like: when will a 7.x point release come out?)

 

-strathglass

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I can't say about FTM, because I used it once in 1995 for about 2 hours and nearly took the computer out and hit somebody with it. I found it to be the MOST frustrating program on the market. Hopefully alot has changed since then. ;)

 

But I can tell you about TMG. I use TMG everyday, sometimes for hours at a time. This new version does have some bugs, and tech support is aware of them and working on fixes. THey do not affect any data. Occasionally, when I am working, and click on a sibling, TMG will close. The data is still there, it's just frustrating. Other than that, like Terry, I have found it to be very stable. In fact, faster than V 6.12 was.

 

THe one reason I love TMG is that it is event driven. I can have any event I want (ex.Alien landing) and attach as many people as I want to that tag. THen I can source that, have images, have it print. Each person can have a different sentence structure for that same tag, so though I am entering data once, it will print many different ways depending on those sentences. You might not need a tag for Alien landing, but I bet you will need one for wills, deeds, etc. and you can modify the standard sentences to print in any way you want. Add as many roles as you want, each role with it's own sentence structure. You can run the sentences of two tags together.

 

My suggestion though to any new user. Download the trials of all the programs. Run them all for 30 days (or how ever long you can) and really put each one to the test. The very features that drive some users crazy are the ones other users will tell you work best for them. We all work differently. Some users are name collectors, others are doing a one name study, still others like me, only research in original documents and don't use online family trees at all. Still others are addicted to Ancestry.com and World Family Tree and love what they find there. We are all in this for different reasons. Some of us want to really know our great great grandparents and the time the lived, others want to prove how they are related to Adam and Eve. You know yourself and your research goals best. Find a program that meets those needs.

 

Just don't hit anyone with your computer. :lol:

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Legacy has a very nice "To Do Reminder List" that is easy to maintain and appears on a Home page when you start the product. - - I use it all of the time and wish and wish TMG could do better that the extremely mediocre thing they've got. (TMG has a klug-y Research Log; data goes in - awkwardly - and it is a pain in the neck to get out and maintain. I hate it.)

 

WHat I did was find a To Do program that I liked, and then I run it from TMG. While I love the research log for RESEARCH tasks, since I can attach them to sources, repositories, and tags, and people, I needed something for more general cleanup tasks, like Scan all Ghee Documents. I can run it both inside TMG (it stays on top) or outside TMG. The one I am currently using is free, but I am really leaning towards purchasing one I liked better. THe cost is a little steep to me, so I am hesitating.

But for research, I still use the Research log in TMG. This is one area where I would like to see a few new features added to the current feature. I liked to be able to have a heirarchy of tasks for a person, be able to bulk copy tasks from one person to another and use Icons with tasks to make one task stand out more than another.

 

This might be an option for you if you are using TMG and still want a To Do list software to run with it.

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I have taken a look at Legacy, Rootsmagic, FTM 2008 and TMG 7. I have been running and using all of these to get a good evaluation of the products. Some of these products have more bells and whistles like Legacy but I always return to TMG 7 for great data recording. In Legacy it seems your data is hidden, you cannot see it all in one place. Since TMG 7 is event driven you can record every single bit of information. The other thing that I love about TMG 7 is all the information you can see on the screen in one place with its layouts. None of the other programs give you this ability to be able to see Siblings and their spouses birth and death dates, Children and their spouses birth and death dates, Parents and Associates - People associated in some way like witnesses to an event. You can quickly focus on any of these people by simply double clicking on their name and bam all your data windows update and you see everything about them

 

The only feature that I see missing from a data entry stand point is the Tree View, you cannot navigate back and forth through it. You are stuck on the person you were seeing in person view and his immediate ancestors that fit on the screen so you cannot use it to get a bigger picture, you will have to print some reports.

 

I also have the concerns about it being on Foxpro which is close to being dead. I never could get a reply from the developers on this forum as to what plans they have in the future. All I can hope for is that the developers have a plan for getting it off of Foxpro in a couple of years. Legacy 7 is coming out soon so I will be looking at that version to see if it gives me what TMG 7 gives me. Rootsmagic is about to come out with version 4 but it kind of scares me when it seems like everything is being done by one programmer and he has not come out with a version upgrade in 3 years. That is an eternity in the software world where people expect upgrades around every 12 months.

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The only feature that I see missing from a data entry stand point is the Tree View, you cannot navigate back and forth through it. You are stuck on the person you were seeing in person view and his immediate ancestors that fit on the screen so you cannot use it to get a bigger picture, you will have to print some reports.
Hmmm... If that is the only issue I don't see a problem. Often on this forum I hear comments that "TMG cannot do ..." when the actual issue is that TMG is so "chock full" of features it can be easy to overlook "how" to do something and mistakenly believe it cannot be done.

 

I navigate back and forth using the Tree View all the time. One of the outstanding features of TMG is the ability to customize screen layouts. If you create a screen layout with the Tree View, plus have the Siblings, Children, and Associates windows open at the same time, you can navigate where ever you need. Double-clicking on a name in the Tree window changes the focus person to that ancestor or spouse, similarly double clicking on a child changes focus to them, etc. If you jump to the farthest back ancestor showing, one button jumps you back to that last viewed decendent. And F2 will bring up the Picklist to let you quickly change the focus to anyone in the dataset. Of course, if your definition of a "bigger picture" is more than viewing six generations at once (five in the Tree plus children), with indicators whether there are even earlier or later generations, then yes, you will need a report for that. The Tree View is big enough for me.

 

As for comparing TMG with other software, I think Terry's article mentioned earlier is the best. Every program on the market has a few bugs or something a particular person will find either missing or not easily enough accomplished. Those issues and "ease of use" are always going to be a matter of taste. For me, TMG has more capability to customize it "my way" and more capability for accurately and completely documenting anything I find out about my ancestors than any other software. And with the companion product of SecondSite to create HTML while losing none of the features or information from TMG, I find it the best for sharing my information in a way that is easy for them to view.

 

Strathglass, I really suggest you just download the software and try it (for free for 30 days) as you indicated you would. If you can't find a way to do something in TMG, I urge you to post back here. The way to accomplish what you want may not be obvious but there are FEW things TMG cannot accomplish, although you may have to do it differently than you expected or currently find easy/intuitive. Even long-time users often post "how do I ..." questions with some other user almost always pointing the way.

 

Hope this gives you ideas,

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The problem I mentioned with the Tree View is that it is not graphical enough, I love the way FTM 2008 has the tree view. You can go forward or back multiple generations by clicking an arrow on the tree view and then change focus to a person by double clicking on him in the Tree View.

 

I know that you can change the tree view by double clicking a name on one of the many data windows on the screen but I would like the reverse available also, to be able to navigate the tree and change focus by the tree. Every genealogy application has this ability now. This is the only eye candy that I have enjoyed from the other genealogy programs that is not in TMG.

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The problem I mentioned with the Tree View is that it is not graphical enough, I love the way FTM 2008 has the tree view. You can go forward or back multiple generations by clicking an arrow on the tree view and then change focus to a person by double clicking on him in the Tree View.

 

I know that you can change the tree view by double clicking a name on one of the many data windows on the screen but I would like the reverse available also, to be able to navigate the tree and change focus by the tree.

I don't understand what you want to do that you can't. As Michael was trying to explian, when in the tree view, double-clicking on a person displayed in the tree makes that person the focus. You can move back one generation by clicking on the arrows to the right of the last generation. That sounds like what you are asking for, best I can understand. No?

 

When you double-click on a person in the tree, the view stays as the tree view. If you want to make a person in the tree the focus of the Person or Family views, click once on that person, then either click the Person or Family tab, or use the Ctrl-P or Ctrl-F keys to simultainousely change focus and views.

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I have FTM 2005 (and had several earlier versions). I just started looking at reviews to see if there was anything better.

I haven't found a lot of informative reviews to be honest.

But some I did find suggested TMG was pretty good.

 

<snip>

Ideally it will be very robust and portable! (Unfortunately I see the program only runs on Microsoft OSs.)

 

And finally how stable is this new TMG7 release? I see a lot of threads here that imply maybe it has a few more bugs than I'd like.

But then maybe it is still very usable and the problems are rare and not serious? I'd like some feedback on this too if possible.

 

Regards,

strathglass

 

PS: I plan to give the 30 day trial a spin, so that will help me form some opinions of my own.

 

I'm curious about which other OSes you're wanting TMG to run on? I understand that it runs on Mac with Parallels and on Linux with vmware, Crossover Office or Win4Lin. I'm about to do a trial myself using TMG with Linux and, if you do a search here on the forum, you'll find a thread which includes a link to a website with specific instructions on using it with Linux.

 

I started using FTM back at the time version 3 was morphing into version 4 and have continued to keep the program up to version 16 (forget 2008!!!) for client and teaching purposes only. I never liked the program and have loved TMG ever since I started using it about 10 years ago.

 

When I first began using technology for my family history, my mentor (bless her heart!) told me whatever program I chose, I would quickly realize I would need at least 2 programs to meet all my needs and wants. She was absolutely right......no single program can ever have every single thing we, as individuals, think is necessary. Overall, I believe that TMG comes the closest which is why it is my primary program. That doesn't mean that I can't find the odd chart or report that some other program does that I can't manage to do in TMG......in that case I do a gedcom into that program and do that chart/report then go back to the TMG layout that is always so much better than in any other program I've seen :D

 

I always advise my clients/students/SIG participants to try several different programs by entering a family group of at least 3 generations in each to see how the data entry process works first as that's what you'll spend the most time doing then check out the reports/charts that are available, always bearing in mind that you can always do as I do for a specific chart or report if another program is much better for your data entry preferences and access to your info from the database.

 

Good luck on your s/w research and be aware that TMG has a phenomenal support network whether from Wholly Genes tech staff or TMG users here and on the TMG-L list plus the regular chat. We are also extremely fortunate to have long time users who have developed add on software plus assistance on maximizing the capabilities of TMG through websites and books as well.

 

B)

Joan

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The problem I mentioned with the Tree View is that it is not graphical enough, I love the way FTM 2008 has the tree view. You can go forward or back multiple generations by clicking an arrow on the tree view and then change focus to a person by double clicking on him in the Tree View.

 

I know that you can change the tree view by double clicking a name on one of the many data windows on the screen but I would like the reverse available also, to be able to navigate the tree and change focus by the tree.

I don't understand what you want to do that you can't. As Michael was trying to explian, when in the tree view, double-clicking on a person displayed in the tree makes that person the focus. You can move back one generation by clicking on the arrows to the right of the last generation. That sounds like what you are asking for, best I can understand. No?

 

When you double-click on a person in the tree, the view stays as the tree view. If you want to make a person in the tree the focus of the Person or Family views, click once on that person, then either click the Person or Family tab, or use the Ctrl-P or Ctrl-F keys to simultainousely change focus and views.

 

I guess I am not explaining myself well. If I go down my tree to the right there is no way for me to go to the left without clicking on a name on some other data window. You would have to mess with Legacy or FTM 2008 to understand what I am saying. With this ability you get the feel like you are surfing your tree. Anyway my point is that I don't like the tree in TMG compared to Rootsmagic, Legacy or FTM 2008, it is a personal preference not that TMG is broken, it is just not graphical on screen like the others.

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I'm a reformed FTM user. Moving to TMG was an extremely enlightening experience. You suddenly realise how restrictive your old program was and how how much more fun you can have with a serious system.

 

The reason for my post is that a couple of the features that I find most valuable in TMG and which I have not seen in any other program (I have only used a half dozen - not an extensive list) have not been mentioned in the postings to date. For me the ability to combine the Filtering capability of TMG together with Custom Flags and then review the results using a combination of Focus Groups and the Project Explorer moves TMG light years away from the beginner/intermediate level tools like FTM.

 

To be able to tightly limit my data so I can check it against a published CDRom or On-Line Database and then record against each person that they have been checked is for me "heaven".

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The problem I mentioned with the Tree View is that it is not graphical enough, I love the way FTM 2008 has the tree view. You can go forward or back multiple generations by clicking an arrow on the tree view and then change focus to a person by double clicking on him in the Tree View.

 

I know that you can change the tree view by double clicking a name on one of the many data windows on the screen but I would like the reverse available also, to be able to navigate the tree and change focus by the tree. Every genealogy application has this ability now. This is the only eye candy that I have enjoyed from the other genealogy programs that is not in TMG.

 

 

Yep... but then it *is* only eye-candy <GRIN>

 

I'll take function over form ever time.

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Wow - lot more detail than I expected, thanks!

To answer Joan's question: I wanted Mac compatability. If it will run under Parallels, then great - since that satisfies my needs!

-strathglass

 

PS: I've downloaded the trail and will run it through its paces.

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<br />
The problem I mentioned with the Tree View is that it is not graphical enough, I love the way FTM 2008 has the tree view. You can go forward or back multiple generations by clicking an arrow on the tree view and then change focus to a person by double clicking on him in the Tree View.<br /><br />I know that you can change the tree view by double clicking a name on one of the many data windows on the screen but I would like the reverse available also, to be able to navigate the tree and change focus by the tree. Every genealogy application has this ability now. This is the only eye candy that I have enjoyed from the other genealogy programs that is not in TMG.
<br /><br /><br />Yep... but then it *is* only eye-candy <GRIN><br /><br />I'll take function over form ever time.<br />
<br /><br /><br />

 

Functionality should always be before eye candy, that is why I am using TMG 7 but all work and no play is a big drag at times.

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