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how to start the Family tree from the oldest member?

how to start the Family tree

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#1 djuradj

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 10:38 AM

Can somebody tell me how to start building family tree from the oldest ancestor to the younger ones? When i start building family tree the wizard starts with my name and i want to start with the oldest one of my ancestors? and how avoid typing in the names of wifes? The tree must contain only the names of male descendants? Please, somebody, help me!

#2 Virginia Blakelock

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 02:23 PM

You do not need to use the wizard. Click Cancel on that window and use Add Person - starting with the oldest ancestor if you wish. If you do not want to enter the names of wives, click OK on the screen where you indicate the wife. Depending on the report output, you may see 'Unknown person' in place of the wife's name. What type of report do you plan to use?

I would suggest adding 3 or 4 generations with male names only (no details) and experiment with the reports. You may find you will need to enter a name - or something in place of a name - for the wife (the son's mother).

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#3 Terry Reigel

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 02:48 PM

You can cancel the wizard and start with anyone you want, as Virginia says. But what's the point? If you have any success your oldest ancestor soon will not be the oldest.

The only thing that happens as the result of starting with a particular person is that determines the order of the ID numbers that are automatically assigned. You can change those numbers manually if you want, or select them manually as you add people. But trying to manage ID numbers, except perhaps for a few key people, is a losing battle. As your database expands there is no logical way to assign ID #s, and it doesn't really matter.

Instead, use the reports available to create the various tree layouts you need from time to time - those will change depending on how your research progresses, and who the report is created for.
Terry

See my Tutorials and Articles on using TMG at tmg.reigelridge.com

The Second Edition of my book, A Primer for The Master Genealogist, is now available
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#4 Virginia Blakelock

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 03:57 PM

If this is for a DNA study, there may be other ways to do what you want, including the TMG Utility option:

"Select DNA Descendants sets a flag for all the descendants of a particular progenitor following the inheritance rules for either Y DNA or mtDNA.

Virginia
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#5 djuradj

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 05:05 AM

thank you all so much! im still not sure how to what i have to do but i will try using your guidelines. but once again, I have to make a family tree diagram that starts with a person who lived 300 years ago. I want to use a round shape diagram(it a must) and this person has to be in the first circle. This diagram has to have only the male descendants and the final user wants this chart printed. these are the demands. If u can give me some more help I would be more that grateful. This software seems a bit complicated to me

#6 Robert Jacobs

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 08:40 AM

thank you all so much! im still not sure how to what i have to do but i will try using your guidelines. but once again, I have to make a family tree diagram that starts with a person who lived 300 years ago. I want to use a round shape diagram(it a must) and this person has to be in the first circle. This diagram has to have only the male descendants . . .


I think the difficulty is the output, not the establishment of the tree. As Terry and Virginia have said, you can enter the data in any order that's convenient for you. The circular output chart is the problem. If I understand your requirements, you need a round chart of all the male descendants of a single ancestor who presumably appears in the center cell. TMG can make a fan chart. It is circular, but it is set up to display the ancestors of a single person. I do not think it can be reversed.

The classic descendancy chart is tree-like because a branched chart reflects the physical reality most closely. I would think that a circular fan chart showing descendants only would be difficult to read without some for of segmentation or color-coding of family branches.

If you have installed TMG why not load the sample project and make some of the report charts? That will give you an idea of what can be done.

I'm afraid this hasn't helped much, and it hasn't helped at all if I have misunderstood what you need. All good wishes.


Robert

#7 Terry Reigel

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 08:58 AM

thank you all so much! im still not sure how to what i have to do but i will try using your guidelines. but once again, I have to make a family tree diagram that starts with a person who lived 300 years ago. I want to use a round shape diagram(it a must) and this person has to be in the first circle. This diagram has to have only the male descendants and the final user wants this chart printed. these are the demands. If u can give me some more help I would be more that grateful. This software seems a bit complicated to me

The order in which you enter the data has nothing to do with how it is presented in reports or charts. Each type of chart or report finds the people who are supposed to be included, without regard to the order in which they were entered.

However, as Robert says, the type of chart you want is an issue. TMG does make "Fan Chart" which is something like what you describe. But it is an ancestors chart - the focus person is in the middle, with his or her ancestors in the surrounding rings. It will not create a descendants chart, with the oldest ancestor in the middle.

TMG makes ancestor charts in the traditional tree format, but not in a circle format. I'm not familiar enough with other software to know whether any will do the type of chart you want.
Terry

See my Tutorials and Articles on using TMG at tmg.reigelridge.com

The Second Edition of my book, A Primer for The Master Genealogist, is now available
. For more information see my website.

#8 djuradj

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:29 AM

Uh... this is discouraging. If TMG can not do this, is there any program that could? Besides AutoCAD, because im not familiar with it.


thank you all so much! im still not sure how to what i have to do but i will try using your guidelines. but once again, I have to make a family tree diagram that starts with a person who lived 300 years ago. I want to use a round shape diagram(it a must) and this person has to be in the first circle. This diagram has to have only the male descendants . . .


I think the difficulty is the output, not the establishment of the tree. As Terry and Virginia have said, you can enter the data in any order that's convenient for you. The circular output chart is the problem. If I understand your requirements, you need a round chart of all the male descendants of a single ancestor who presumably appears in the center cell. TMG can make a fan chart. It is circular, but it is set up to display the ancestors of a single person. I do not think it can be reversed.

The classic descendancy chart is tree-like because a branched chart reflects the physical reality most closely. I would think that a circular fan chart showing descendants only would be difficult to read without some for of segmentation or color-coding of family branches.

If you have installed TMG why not load the sample project and make some of the report charts? That will give you an idea of what can be done.

I'm afraid this hasn't helped much, and it hasn't helped at all if I have misunderstood what you need. All good wishes.


Robert


Hi Robert, Thanks for your interest. U did understand me correctly. That`s what i need. Dont know what to do now, i had a lot of hope for TMG. Is there any other program that could generate something like this, regardless of price or anything? Thanks again

#9 djuradj

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:32 AM

Maybe some other software for "circular" drawing and editing? I have tried Visio but it doesn`t work.
Thanks again people

#10 Michael Hannah

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 10:15 AM

I want to use a round shape diagram and this person has to be in the first circle. This diagram has to have only the male descendants... Uh... this is discouraging. If TMG can not do this, is there any program that could?

The simple answer is that TMG is not designed to do this. In fact, I am unaware of any genealogy software that is designed to do this. The problem with the ancestor in the middle is that an ancestor could have any number of sons, so that makes the number of segments at each ring variable. All genealogy programs I know of do the circle with the descendant in the middle because a child always has only two parents so the sectioning for each ring is clear.

I know of no program which will do this automatically. As you suggest a general purpose drawing program can always draw circles and add text, so you could construct such a chart manually. As far as I know that is your only alternative.

Michael


#11 djuradj

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 10:35 AM

I want to use a round shape diagram and this person has to be in the first circle. This diagram has to have only the male descendants... Uh... this is discouraging. If TMG can not do this, is there any program that could?

The simple answer is that TMG is not designed to do this. In fact, I am unaware of any genealogy software that is designed to do this. The problem with the ancestor in the middle is that an ancestor could have any number of sons, so that makes the number of segments at each ring variable. All genealogy programs I know of do the circle with the descendant in the middle because a child always has only two parents so the sectioning for each ring is clear.

I know of no program which will do this automatically. As you suggest a general purpose drawing program can always draw circles and add text, so you could construct such a chart manually. As far as I know that is your only alternative.



OK. Guess you re right. :( Can u suggest such a program to me? something that gives a lot of options for editing, drawing and erasing? I apologize if i already go on your nerves.

Thanks

#12 Michael Hannah

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 10:56 AM

Not on my nerves :D
I would probably not bother to get some special program, but simply use whatever program I have that I know how to use. By the time you get and learn some graphics program you could probably be finished if you use what you know. Even most word processors, like Word, will draw circles and lines, which are really the only two graphics you need.

If I were going to do this I would start from the outside in. First I would draw the number of rings needed. Then I would figure out how many total males would need to appear in the outside ring and equally divide up that outer ring with lines, using a thicker line to separate groups of siblings. Then work inward.

It will take a bit of work, but should not be difficult, just time consuming. Good luck.

Michael


#13 Virginia Blakelock

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 12:20 PM

Maybe you could make a 360-degree blank fan chart in VCF and then enter the names manually. An easy way would be to make a standard descendant box chart of the men and open it simultaneously with the fan chart and then copy the text boxes from the descendent chart to the fan chart.

Create a blank fan chart in VCF and take a look at the report options. Then in the created blank chart, rightclick in the chart to see the choices you have for Grid Properties and Default Properties.

CircleChart.png



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#14 RobinL

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 03:00 PM

The traditional Fan Chart is a compact way of displaying all ANCESTORS of an individual. Your request is to follow just male lines as DESCENDANTS. There are some family history applications that will produce a descendant form of Fan Chart.

HOWEVER, wilth the varying number of sons in each branch, these become extremely difficult to interpret (as more extensive branches require a large fraction of the circle to display them). I would not recommend them as the most effective metthod of display.

Many years ago I submitted a wish that VCF box charts had an option (mainly for DNA studies) to only show a selected gender of persons. Unfortunately, this has nor been acted upon.
Robin Lamacraft
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#15 Virginia Blakelock

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 04:19 PM

If you google for Descendant Fan Charts you'll find examples and links to software that can make them. I don't see a practical way to do it in VCF.

Virginia
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