Mike Talbot

Attached is an update of Gen. Patton’s ancestor chart. It is augmented with data realized as omitted or discovered after it was first posted. Virginia’s color box fill technique (see that topic in this forum) was used to emphasize Patton’s royal descents. Since the old chart had so much hand editing and additions from standard TMG charts, it was preserved. New standard charts were generated (this is a composite chart). Just the components that had changed on the new charts were copied and pasted over the old chart. This editing of the old chart resulted in far less work than editing a new composite TMG-VCF chart from scratch. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ For old movie buffs, a chart on Mickey Rooney’s family and “friends” is also attached. It demonstrates how a large number of boxes can fit on a letter size chart. Explanatory text has been added both inside and outside the boxes. This chart is not a composite of many charts. It began as a single large standard TMG Descendant Chart on Rooney’s father. Rooney’s paramours were each linked to him in the TMG database by a non-standard tag in the marriage group (the only non-standard tag that I ever use). Components were moved to force-fit them to letter size paper using VCF. Many connector lines were deleted and replaced by fewer lines for clarity. Photos were imported. Note, that many boxes and components have been overlapped (such as boxes partially covering other boxes) to save space. Connector lines to non-biologically related people have been changed from red to blue and have been simplified and moved for clarity. Inserted photos have been used as partial backgrounds. Since some of the Rooney data is based on celebrity rumors and gossip, it may contain errors. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Instead of frustration when serious projects hang-fire, you may find such non-related projects to be fun, relaxing and informative. It is certain that you will learn many useful techniques that can directly apply to your more serious pursuits. I know that I do. Do it your way, Mike Talbot

This is neither a limitation nor a bug. It is a genealogical standard for ancestor charts. You can change the phrasiology of "This is a duplicate person" to a phrase of your choosing. But all is not lost for your graphic desires. TMG provides the option to output charts to VCF. VCF is a TMG included program that allows you to edit and revise your charts to the way that you like them. Click on the Support Forums above and then on VCF for ideas on how to do it your way. VCF requires a little practice. Try it, if you run into problems post your specific questions on that VCF forum. Best wishes, Mike Talbot

As Jim explained, you can do that. But, why? What is gained? Memory is now cheap. You do loose all of that research. Can you be so sure of what your future genealogical interests will be? Think about it. Answer these questions to and for yourself, only. As you mentioned, by deleting 2 links, you can prevent those people from appearing on your ancestor or descendant charts and reports. TMG can handle hundreds of thousands of people and many so called trees with no problem. You don't have to look at those that you don't want. Best wishes, whatever you decide, Mike Talbot

I'm far too lazy to type Louisiana, Connecticut. etc. So, I just type in LA, CT, etc. for the state when I define a person's data. It also saves valuable real-estate on charts and reports. Cheers, Mike Talbot

We have had a semantics problem. You were using correct TMG terminology where a PEDIGREE is a PDF format chart-like report. I was thinking in generic genealogy terms where a Pedigree Chart = Seize Quartiers = a 5 gen Ancestry Chart. I was wrong (or right about the wrong thing). I stopped using the TMG Pedigree report way back in the TMG 4 days and forgot about it until your last message jogged my memory. Reasons: TMG-PDF output is inflexible, unattractive, no images, I have had a multitude of PDF related problems and then- VCF lights up my day (I'm predjudiced toward VCF). The Compressed Pedigree is not too bad, if you don't often have trouble with PDF and can settle for incomplete data. All the things that I wrote were true, but only about VCF charts. Please forgive my misunderstanding. You could produce a chart identical to the Pedigree one that you posted using VCF. If you must use the TMG PDF Pedigree report, add to your Wish List: Overlap the first (or first two) generation(s), there's lots of room for that. You might still try the 6 pt. font (and different fonts) for all but the name (and eliminate prepositions, I never liked cyber-English. It looks so computer generated <g>). I hope that all the VCF related stuff in this topic will be useful to someone, someday. Best wishes and mea culpa, Mike Talbot

The first half of my previous message concerned how to change the chart definition options to reduce the height of boxes. Unless you have an image for most everyone in the fifth gen., the options shown in the previous message will make the chart fit on 8 x less than 11". Those programs that do show a complete 5 gen pedigree do so by overlapping one or two generations. The chart in my example is 8 x less than 9". A pedigree chart is just a 5 gen ancestor chart with reasonably complete information on each person (b, m, d). What line each piece of data is on is not important. You can define the chart with or without boxes in TMG. Hope it works for you, Mike

Teresa: There is no way to make a readable, complete 5 gen. ancestor, full information and images, chart in TMG or any other genealogy program, including FTM, unless you overlap at least one generation. Notice, the left side of the chart type under discussion, is mostly vacant white paper. Overlapping gens. makes use of this otherwise wasted space. My recommendations to make a 5 gen chart (the only way that I know): Keep your current ancestor chart definition set as backup. Make a new chart definition set by- Report> Ancestor Chart > Add> name the new chart definition set (starting with the letters Anc…) Reduce the number of lines in a box and its height by: Chart style- without shadow use gaps 10 and 5, (with shadow use gaps 5 and 5). Options> Data Types>(for each Box Type)1 Birth* Group Abbr PlacePrep Place 2 Death* Group “ “ (place the marriage data in the box type(s) of your choice on line 3). This should significantly reduce the average height of the boxes. Boxes (size 176 x 0 pixels, you can experiment later) Use 8 pt. R font for name Use 6 pt. R for other data (I know, I need reading glasses to see that tiny font, too) I like dark blue box borders and white fill. Lines- I like solid red color. Other- (size important options, only) Identifiers, none Text align., left Places, check- city, county, state, country Images- on left, 68 x 72 (maximums) Miscellaneous, check only Remove blank lines and Allow word wrap. Set all other options to your taste, but remember the goal is to keep it small. Generate TMG chart using the above options set and ready to overlap 1 generation in VCF: Step 1. In VCF select the 4 right hand generations. View>Zoom to fit, .Position mouse to the lower left corner of the chart. Hold down the left mouse key and move the mouse pointer to the upper left corner of the mid-1st generation. Release mouse key. See first attachment (the tiny squares at the corners and mid-points of each selected component are not seen in the attachment, but you will see them in VCF). Step 2. Position mouse over any selected component on the right side of chart. Hold down the left mouse key and move directly to the right. Be patient and you will see a ghost image of the moved portion of the chart. When the ghost of the rightmost box is on the inside of the page divider, release the mouse key. See second attachment for result. Step 3. You see connector lines covering the subject person (far left box). Select that box by clicking on it. Click on the move to front icon in menu (a tiny yellow box covering the corner of 2 gray boxes). Voila, the subject box now covers the connector lines and you have a letter size chart. To trim the chart- tools> diagram> size to components. See the third attachment for resulting 5 gen letter size chart. Now, experiment with chart definition parameters and edit your chart until you get it your way. If you like the gray shadows on boxes, you will need to overlap 2 generations. Questions? This took a long time to write, hope I didn't leave something important out or make an error. Good luck, Mike Talbot

The nearest I can tell there are about 125 pixels per inch horizontal and about 100 pixels per inch vertical. Typically, the boxes in my charts are 176 x 76 pixels (they vary considerably, vertically, when there is no picture). If you use VCF to hand overlap (move) the first two generations you can make your boxes wider. Can you describe what you don't like about TMG generated charts? Describe what you want, instead? Maybe post an example? TMG/VCF has such a wide variety of configurable options, maybe someone here can help make your charts the way that you want them. Good luck, Mike

Did you ever reach a temporary impasse or become bored with your current reseach genealogy project? When that happens to me, I put that project aside and look for data on an interesting person (to me) of historical importance or celebrity. An exciting new project always restores my enthusiasm for more serious but less thrilling genealogical research. The attached VCF charts are the results of such tangential projects. The first chart shows a line of ascent from Queen Paola of Belgium to the marquis de LaFayette (see previous post). The chart continues down to her heirs. The second chart displays Sophia Loren's family. Italian connections? Each chart was designed and hand edited in VCF to fit on letter size paper. If you have any questions on the techniques involved in the hand editing of the charts in this topic, ask, but please be specific. Regards, Mike Talbot

For those with similar problems, try using the MS Windows Internet Explorer instead of standard AOL (or other service) to communicate with this forum. A work-around found for large JPG attachment upload failures to this forum using AOL: JPG files as large as 880 KB upload fine with the Windows Internet Explorer. 311 KB was the largest JPG upload that was successful using AOL. The Windows Explorer did fail on a 2 meg JPG file. No attachment sizes between the 880 KB success and the 2 meg failure have been tested. The attached 440 KB had failed to upload in a previous attempt. It is the original 5 gen. ancestor chart on Lafayette mentioned in my previous post in this topic. It is a composite (several people copied from other charts) with one generation of siblings with spouses and two VCF hand edited overlapped generations. It fits on one legal size sheet. Good luck, Mike Talbot

Thank you, Virginia, for posting the message where I could not upload attachments. It seems that any attachment larger than the low-300s KB will not upload to TMG forums from my computer. The same large attachments will upload to e-mail. Any ideas, anyone? The attached chart (311 KB) shows a use of color (using Virginia’s color palette) on regular sized charts (letter size paper). This chart honors Lafayette and other American Revolution leaders at the Battle of Yorktown. The original chart displayed 5 generations of Lafayette ancestors. But, at 400 KB it would not upload to this forum. Mike Talbot

Yes. Tried to upload a previously successfully uploaded attachment (around 300 KB) and a version of the failed one, twice, today. In both cases, the old 300KB one worked and the 875 KB one failed. (I must have made a mistake on uploading the old 300 KB file when it failed last week, since it works, now.) The approx. 875 KB one continues to fail in the identical manner. I've tried making changes to the new files in VCF and re-exporting them. The failure is consistent. It seems to be a protocol or file size related thing. (AOL has a size limit of 16 megs on e-mail. Not close on that.) The two new files that fail to upload were inspired by your 8 generation tiny-charts and color posts. Thank you, Mike

Yes.

A 1200 people chart would be huge. You might want to consider doing a separate chart for each of the 13 children. Perhaps the resulting 13 charts would be more manageable in size, with more color flexibilty. You could then paste g...grandpa and wife onto each of the 13 charts. Doing an Indented Descendant Chart, in addition, is not a bad idea. Good luck, Mike Talbot

You're a genius!!! "Little charts" worked first time out of the box without a hitch. It was just as easy to get back to and test my regular charts, also good. My last wish list item is fulfilled (the first one). Now to make a few different versions... Thank you so much, Mike Talbot

We can have named sets of VCF chart configuration parameters now, using the Add button under the configuration name - and it seems like we should be able to exchange configurations. Below is a screenshot of a simple Ancestor box chart with siblings. You can download the report configuration file for that report from vblakelock.com/AncSibLifespan.rpt. Save the file to your configuration file folder, located by default at: Windows Vista: C:\Users\username\Documents\The Master Genealogist v7\Configuration_files Windows XP and Windows 2000: C:\Documents and Settings\username\My Documents\The Master Genealogist v7\Configuration_files The report configuration named AncSibLifespan should appear in the dropdown list of configurations in your Ancestor box chart report definition screen. If you don't see the report listed, close and reopen TMG to refresh the list. Run the report just as it is, using someone in your project. After generating the chart, make these changes: File > Page Setup > Landscape Tools > Diagram > Diagram measurements: 11 and 8.5 Select the chart title and move it to the center of the page, using arrow key Ctrl-A and using left arrow key - move entire chart to the left as far as it will go. Check Print Preview and see if the chart needs to be moved up and down or to the right to center. The boxes in this example are not colored since I usually hand-color with the palette. You can set box and line colors in the report definition screen before you generate it if you wish. Let me know if this works for you. Depending on the lengths of names in your project, you may have to drop a generation. Virginia Thank you. It will take a while to digest this procedure. Then a bit longer to buck up the courage to try it. Exciting! Thanks again. Mike Talbot

Dear Virginia: I love your chart example with "little charts." I wish that I could use them. Unfortunately, almost every VCF chart configuration parameter would have to be changed. This would be the work of around an hour each time one wanted a different VCF chart style. So many parameter changes would also be error prone. Wish List addition: Named sets of TMG VCF chart configuration parameters. This would permit the change of your set of tiny chart parameters to my regular set of chart parameters and vs.vs. with a couple of mouse clicks. Thanks for the great idea, hope Wholly is listening, Mike Talbot

Thank you for your thoughts and comments. I’m glad that some of the examples were useful to you. Wish that I'd seen your 42" x 10 feet ancestor chart with ties to some relatives of the wedding couple. Great idea!!! There might be a few “sour grapes” in my comments on storing and displaying large charts. The 15 gen. ancestor chart that I tried to work with was 37 inches x 38 feet as generated. It took over one minute (VCF execution time) to move each selection of components. Having a few thousand selection moves to be made, you can see why it seemed impractical. I’m happy to edit for several hours to get a chart that I want, but several days are way beyond my endurance. I cheerfully spent a couple of hours rearranging a 15 x 35 inches 7 gen. ancestor chart to 12 x 18 inches (my daughter’s printer). VCF execution was far faster than me on that size. The Exibit Log seems to be fine and easy to use for genealogical purposes. But, the Exhibit Log is not good to use as a photo album organizer. Let’s hope that we get some additional creative VCF ideas. I know that they’re out there. Best wishes, Mike Talbot

Mike, With greetings like that, how can a newbie not like TMG. Oops, typo! Nothing Freudian intended. <g> Mike

Just a thought. Perhaps you are equating person ahnentafel #1 in an ancestor report with TMG ID record #1. The TMG ID # has absolutely no genealogical significance. It is just an adress in the computer of where that person's data is stored. If you generate an Ahnentafel Report with focus person in TMG ID #284, that person will be #1 in the generated ancestor report. The Ahnentafel #1 person does have genealogical significance. Furthermore, you can make your TMG ID# 284 as the focus person of the auto relationship calculator (file>preferences>current project optons, other>enter focus person). Then, whenever you acess any other person, the relationship line in the person detail display will show that person's relation to your selected focus person. Let us know if I have misinterpreted your question. Good lick and enjoy TMG, Mike Talbot

Thanks for the good ideas. I keep a VC2 chart called BoilerPlate containing disclaimer and note text that I use, often. Will add numbered boxes and a few symbols inspired by your post to it. I'm not sure that I'm ready for color filled boxes, yet. Would you post a chart that uses them? Thanks again, Mike Talbot

Due to an oversight and at the risk of my credibility, I couldn’t resist adding one more chart. This one rightfully belongs with the Monaco group, presented in a previous message within this topic. This chart contains no genealogy, but outlines an amusing, but unimportant (except, maybe to Princess Alice Heine of Monaco), slice of history concerning the courtesan La Belle Otero. Otero is linked to her alleged impressive affairs with a non-standard TMG tag in the marriage group. The attached document is a standard VCF Descendant Chart, with a little modification that took only a few moments. That time does not include writing a mini-biography nor searching the Net for the relevant photos and posters imported into the chart. (Add a few fun hours, there.) Again, enjoy VCF, Mike Talbot Remember, you may need to click on full screen in your browser to scroll and read the bottom of charts attached throughout this topic.

Oops, it should read: I use 8 and 6 point fonts in the boxes as mentioned there. Sorry about that, Mike

The attached charts may especially interest fans of old movies. As a fan of ‘Robin Hood’ and ‘Evita’, among others, the attached two VCF charts were chosen. The Flynn chart took about a half hour to rearrange his family and many romantic interests from a huge standard VCF descendant chart to fit on letter size paper. The chart on Evita Peron’s known affairs took only a few minor changes in a few moments to accomplish. The data for these charts were compiled as a lark during droughts in finding data for more serious pursuits. This post concludes my current plans for this topic, unless there are questions. Enjoy the power and flexibility of TMG with VCF, do it your way, Mike Talbot

Dear Virginia, Thank you. The VCF configuration settings for these charts are shown in a message, above. I use 10 and 8 point fonts in the boxes as mentioned there. Chart sizes are reduced by moving selections of components to more compact locations. No rescaling of the overall chart is ever done. The VCF default text entry, box style and color palettes are used, throughout. Each chart fits on letter sized paper when printed. To add to this topic: The attached three VCF charts feature a New Orleans born princess of Monaco, Marie Alice Heine. Her business and management acumen transformed Monaco from a relatively poor principality into a very rich one over a century ago. Emphasis is placed on a few different ways to illustrate multi-spouses on VCF charts. Remember, you may need to click on full screen in your browser to read the bottom of charts attached throughout this topic. Best wishes, Mike Talbot