RobinL

Thanks Virginia. A good (and well behaved) video of the editing of orthogonal lines.

Just a few comments about what might happen <VBG>

There are 2 types of connection ports - those on the sides of person boxes and those that are floating on the canvas.

The ports on the side of a person box will always draw the first segment of the line at right angles to the side of the box, then make a track to the other end with same rule applying if the other end is also on a box.

The floating connection ports (eg from the toolbar) are really 4 connection ports, and the way that lines join to the port depends on which of the 4 ports you actually connect to. Sometimes if it draws a line in an unexpected path, drag the line end away from the port and approach the floating port from another direction and then a different path might be chosen.

An orthogonal line from, say, out of the bottom of a box to the top of a box below it, will always draw the spanning line at the halfway height point between the starting and ending vertical values. Similarly with left - right lines in the horizontal sense.

Lines that join a horizontal and a vertical port (like the US marriage L-shaped line) will take unexpected paths if one end point box is moved to a different displacement from the start box. It will even do a loop like part of a clover-leaf highway turn if the displacement gets to be less than 5/16 inch (30 pixels) or it will pass across the box, etc. If you try to reshape an orthogonal line by dragging its corners to a new location, then save the chart as a VC2 file, then there is guarantee that on re-opening the chart that the line will remain where you placed it. The only safe way is to insert a floating connection port in the path.

(The 5/16 inch constraint makes it impossible to make neat _very compact_ charts with joining lines.)

Joe,

My initial analysis has two parts to it:

1) it sounds like you have an image for a child that can't be handled by the image tools inside VCF. The appearance of images in other reports doen't mean that VCF can also handle that image.

2) what I would try is to go to the children and set the person image for each in turn to non-primary and try to generate a chart with images. I suspect that you will find that there is at least one image that will cause the effect where the father image shows the but the child one will not.

What format is/are this image(s)? What is its pixel dimensions?

There is only an ability in VCF to present the Primary Name of a person - no other names can be output without some redundant input by the user. (This is also seen as a shortcoming in other users of TMG/VCF like anthropology where there can be a legal requirement to show both the Indigenous Name and the Western Name on genealogical charts in court documents.) VCF will output up to 9 lines of data per person but these data can _only_ be extracted from primary Event tags. To overcome the single name limitation of VCF, the user must re-enter the second name as a Memo of a primary custom tag. Then you can output that Memo field in VCF - there will be no name formatting - what you enter is what you get. The unfortunate aspect is that the data lines in a box (apart from the first Name line) all share the same font/size/formatting setting. So even with this workaround, this second name cannot be made to standout or apart from the usual BMDB data lines.

There is a design problem within the TMG Primary/Non-primary designation of Name tags that makes overcoming this limitation quite difficult. What a user needs is a means to specify which other name tag(s) should be output. A person can have many married names or more than two alternative names - nobility and Spanish culture, apart from anthropology are examples that requirement would need to be addressed in any redesign. The design of GenBridge (used by VCF to get the TMG data) also limits what can be accessed, so the whole issue is extremely complex.

It is unlikely to happen soon, so if you want 2 names to be output, then you need to re-enter the name again in a primary Custom event tag.

Evelyn,

The definition of duplicate persons on a chart is NOT what you expect!

The only duplicates that are detected are those where the same person occurs as "as a descendant in the same role". That is, the children of an intercousin marriage are seen as duplicates, but because in the two versions of the same marriage, one person is seen as a descendant and the spouse as an outsider, they are not seen as duplicates!! In other words it is working correctly according to its "descendant" rules.

The duplicate detection does not occur for the same person as a spouse in two or more places. This has been commented on before.

Here is an interesting way to create a combined chart for cousins ...

Create 4 descendancy charts:

1) Paternal/Paternal grandfather left to right

2) Paternal/maternal granfpather left to right

3) Maternal/Paternal grandfather right to left

4) Maternal/Maternal grandfather right to left

Now cut and paste them onto a new enlarged canvas in the pattern

1 3

2 4

leave a one generation gap in the middle.

All the cousins/siblings will form 2 columns (paternal and maternal) up the middle.

With some careful editing to move the common family into the middle space and remove duplicated persons. This chart now shows all persons within 2 generations on both sides of the family. The concept can be extended to 8 charts (going back one further generation, etc). Some appropriate accenting can identify 1st and 2nd cousins, even double cousins when they occur.

Cassin,

A couple of ideas:

Are mofiting the settings in the default chart name or in a configuration that you have saved under a new name? I would always advise that you use the add button and create configuration for this use. When you do it is often that you forget to select it before you nake another version of the chart. So make the new config run the chart, see what you want to change. Use the Last Used Reports item at the bottom of the Reports Menu to select that name again and this trap is avoided.

I presume that you have made the approrpiate changes for *each* of the box types. One test - make your changes then don't run the chart - click [save Settings] instead. Now go back and open your chart configuration and look at you data types settings - have they stuck?

Robin

Robin, Thank you so much - I can't believe I didn't see "delete a line". I am also having trouble with the Data box when you configure a chart - the option where you can tell what tags to include in the box. I have selected specific tags but the default ones (b,m,d) keep showing up - not the ones I pick. Any suggestons? I really appreciate the time you took to answer my post.

How do you edit the height of one box in the ancestor box chart - I deleted some text in the box and now have blank space in the box so I would like to decrease the height. Thank you.

It depends on what you did.

If you deleted all the contents from the _last data line_ in the box then use right-click Delete a Line.

If you deleted all the contents from _any other data line_ in the box then you have to move up the data in the lines below in sequence until the last line is blank, then you can delete it. The moving operation can be done by double clicking a line you want to move then CTRL+C (copy) and then double-click the line where you want to place that text and CTRL+V (paste).

It is unfortunate that there is not a Delete Selected Line item in the right click menu.

On change of focus away from the box the box will be redrawn to the reduced size.

WARNING - Do not remove lines from boxes in descendant charts that use the UK style of marriage lines as this will cause the marriage lines to tilt.

As far as I know, there's no analogous situation that applies to the other document types (.DOC, .PDF, etc.)

Joe just pointed out a perfect example of an analogous situation... the need to substitute an alternate version of a document where the original can't be published on the web.

 

It would be a worthwhile update to allow the alternate exhibit folder to work for any alternate exhibit irregardless of the filetype. Or perhaps a method to specify the filetypes that could be used by the alternate exhibit folder.

 

This is something that requires some thought since TMG users have also expressed a need to disable exhibit output for selected exhibits and, perhaps, for a means of alternative exhibit output.

I totallyagree that this should be looked at. There is a need for alternate image sets with reduced numbers of pixels for use in Visual Chartform box charts. The large individual image pixel count quickly bloats the chart file size, slows down editing and printing but giving no advanage in the output quality.

I usually specify the surname as "--" (double-exclusion). This suppresses the surname and TMG (and SS) will not substitute the missing surname string. The missing surname string doesn't apply in this case; it's not that the surname is unknown, there wasn't one...

 

Thank you, John. All good wishes.

 

 

formerprof

One observation (a pragmatic one) is that I feel that it is better in these cases to enter the name in the Surname and leave the given name blank or --. The rationale for this approach is that mostly you work with picklists that are sorted by surname when you have a majority of people with Western Names. This method works better for me.

A second observation: at some point in time these persons have both a Native name and a Western name, but the restriction of only one name being primary means that you can't get both names on a chart and still have then available in the picklist as entries in the sorted list. How have you overcome this situation?

My solution is to have both names as Name-Var, (actually as Name_Native and Name_oWestern custom name tags) one of them is primary, usually the Native name. Also, to enable the second name to appear on charts, I create a custom AKA-Name tag in the Other tag group, enter the name as I want it output in the Memo of this tag. Now I can reference the AKA_Name* Memo in the VCF data lines for output.

Does anyone have an alternative to this duplication of data entry?

Maybe Data_paths.txt can be incorporated into the existing "Data Set Manager"

The reference to help and to including data_paths.txt mechanism within the program are both a problem of which comes first "the chicken or the egg".

Help doesn't exist until the install completes.

The data_paths.txt mechanism is like taking the current install and "copying" it to a new location in the computer, then deleting those bits that have been moved, which is likely the program itself that is doing the deleting. It is like sitting on the branch of a tree while sawing it off from the tree.

The relocation process can easily get into knot as some definition files contain references to paths in other places that are likley to get moved in the process.

I also want to control the install paths of various folders for some uses of TMG, especially when you want to share files across a network.

A separate tool could be built to validate the process prior to the first of opening of TMG.

At other times, I have have wished for a little more control over what you can select in the right-click menu from a person box and then when editing properties of a selected group of components.

1) To be able select the whole tree from one person - e.g. descedants of the clicked person in descendant chart, or ancestors of the clicked person in an ancestor chart, so that you could group or move or edit them, etc in bulk. If this was a "Select Special" item that opened a small popup wher you could make selections then it could be made cery effective without increasing the length of the right-click menu. It could for some selections limit the number of generations involved, e.g. 1 generation would be children or parents, etc depending on the sense of the selection.

2) To select only the _boxes_ of the above or only the _connecting lines_, _ marriage lines_ of the the descendant or ancestor tree, etc.

3) When using Properties on a seleced group of objects, to be able to select which object type in the selection to act on (connection lines, marriage lines, or person boxes) and to filter on which components of a person box you want that Property edit to apply. EG just change the font look for Name line, or say, the Birth Place, etc and not every data line.

Mike,

There two side effects of using the marquee method selection (enclosing objects witha dragged out dashed rectangle)

1) You select more objects than you expect (including the floating connection ports and spouse connecting lines), whereas the menu item only select the boxes.

2) if you select using a marquee and then use right-click Properties, your action will apply to all objects in your selection, so changing the line thickness or colour, will apply to all lines in your selection, e.g. the outline of the box and the spouse connectng lines.

John,

Which version of VCF are you using? (Help > About) - sound like you may have to re-install VCF. I am not that is a seaprate option on the TMG installer.

I have rechecked as I was not aware of any problem.

In a descendant box chart this operates as I would expect (selecting siblings, spouses, and spouses of siblings) and not select any other persons from other families at the same generation.

In what type of chart were you trying to use that operation?

I tried this flags into entry screen before and it was partly what I am looking for. However I did not like when the flags appear at the top of the person entry screen.

 

What I was looking for is colours INTO FLAG WINDOW so the flag text (full line) itself is coloured based on its own value.

 

Peter

 

This is an interesting request.

 

It impacts on

- the flag window,

- flag manager,

- the flag add/edit windows

 

It would also require a database structure change so that the foreground and background colour for each state of each flag can be stored in the project and be available on the next use of that project.

 

If the flag feature were ever up for review then this would a worthy enhancement.

 

 

I wonder just what type of performance hit this would cause?

It would have a performance hit while the flag window was open and at every change of focus person. So there should be a preference setting to turn it on/off as the user desires!

I tried this flags into entry screen before and it was partly what I am looking for. However I did not like when the flags appear at the top of the person entry screen.

 

What I was looking for is colours INTO FLAG WINDOW so the flag text (full line) itself is coloured based on its own value.

 

Peter

This is an interesting request.

It impacts on

- the flag window,

- flag manager,

- the flag add/edit windows

It would also require a database structure change so that the foreground and background colour for each state of each flag can be stored in the project and be available on the next use of that project.

If the flag feature were ever up for review then this would a worthy enhancement.

I googled "JPG size limits" and found a number of sites that suggest that 65K is the technical limit, while some some image processing tools cut-out at 30K in either direction.

 

Also, it seems as if TIFF does not have such a small limit.

 

And if you have the right software the latest PostScript/PDf has a limit of 300K per side.

 

I think that your problem may be due to the 3rd party ULead tools that uses to process JPG files.

 

You may do better to output to an appropriate PDF psuedo printer.

 

I don't think it is a problem of VCF's making but the image format that you are trying to use.

 

In 7.03, VCF Export has only 3 output format options: JPG, BMP and EMF(whatever that is).

 

To test a large chart (21 x136 inches), the following exported file sizes resulted:

 

JPG 3,474

BMP 76,209

EMF 48,836

(VC2) 47,845

There are no other options in VCF for export output file type.

 

What to do? Help,

Mike Talbot

I said

You may do better to output to an appropriate PDF psuedo printer.

You don't seem to understand what this means, so let me explain...

There are packages that act like printer drivers but don't actually print anything, they convert the printable stream to another format and save that as a file. cutePDF (no plug intended) is an example of a pseudo-printer driver that will convert the printing stream to PDF format. There are many of these available for free download for home use. There are others that will output to another format like TIFF.

In the PDF case, they all have page size options. In VCF File > Page Setup, select that PDF driver as the printer, and open its properties. You will need to select PostScript Custom Page size and set the size to fit your chart (if possible).

Now look at it in VCF; File > Print Preview to see what has got onto the page, and iterate until you get the dimensions right (Tools > Diagram > Diagram Measurements will give you some guidance but margins sometimes come into play.

I hope that this helps.

It sounds like a data length problem somewhere.

Can you produce a Journal report from the Sample project OK?

If that works then start small in your project and slowly increase the output until you get a failure.

I googled "JPG size limits" and found a number of sites that suggest that 65K is the technical limit, while some some image processing tools cut-out at 30K in either direction.

Also, it seems as if TIFF does not have such a small limit.

And if you have the right software the latest PostScript/PDf has a limit of 300K per side.

I think that your problem may be due to the 3rd party ULead tools that uses to process JPG files.

You may do better to output to an appropriate PDF psuedo printer.

I don't think it is a problem of VCF's making but the image format that you are trying to use.

BACKGROUND:

There is a publication requirement for some genealogical charts to show both birth and baptism data.

But TMG has the standard Baptism tag in the Birth Group, and when there is a Primary Birth tag, that Baptism information cannot be directly output on a VCF Chart. When there is no Birth tag and the Baptism tag is Primary, TMG uses that date as a surrogate to estimate age and to sort the birth order of children, etc.

DATA ENTRY:

Create a custom "Baptized" tag (or similar distinct label) in the other Group.

There are 4 cases to consider:

Add Primary Birth tag - no existing Baptism tag

enter Primary Birth as normal

Add Primary Baptism tag - no existing Birth tag

enter Primary Baptism as normal

also add an other group Baptised tag with same information (but remove Primary status)

Add Primary Birth tag - existing Primary Baptism tag

enter Primary Birth as normal (Baptism tag is now not Primary)

make Primary other group Baptised tag

Add Baptism tag - existing Primary Birth tag

enter Baptism tag as normal (ensure that Birth is still Primary)

also add an other group Baptised tag with same information (make Primary)

(this double entry of Baptism info means that some report filters will continue to give the desired results)

CHART OPTIONS SETUP:

For each Box Type on the Data Types tab,

i. Select the Birth *Group line that you want to see

(it will Birth when that is Primary and Baptism when that tag is primary)

ii. Select the Baptized * line that you want to see when there is a primary Birth tag

On the Other tab, make sure Remove blank lines is checked.

Hi Penepole,

I suggest that you mail the zip file to me here. If possible it should include the .VC2 files that you created on the way to creating your .emf frame files.

Once I have looked at your file, I will see what can be done. This discusssion will occur off-list.

If appropriate, I will then explain details of any issues and workarounds in this topic.

Robin

Hi Robin,

<snip>

I have made a zip file, but I can't see where to attach it. Also, I'm not sure I want to post it on a public forum as this may be displeasing to my superiors. I see you're in Adelaide - is it at all possible to speak to you on the phone and/or email it to you offlist?

Penelope

RobinL - I am also needing to use triangles and circles, did you manage to make some that worked?

I just repeated the previous custom frame experiment in TMG 7.03 with frames that use a circle or triangle selected on the SEX flag and found that it worked as I expected.

What are you trying to achieve?

Are you trying to create a circle and a triangle fame that surrounds the contents of the box?

How much content are placing within the boxes?

Remember that the frame surrounds the contents of and is scaled from its original shape by the space required to fit the rectangle that holds the box contents. This places limitations on what can be achieved. That is why my preferred solution was to add a small version of the symbol (circle or triangle) at the attachment port of that person to the descendant chart, ortherwise the space taken up by the frame and/or the distortion of the frame symbol because of the vriable scaling can make the chart unattractive.

It is unclear to me what you are expecting to achieve. Please draw a 2 or 3 box example in VCF (using the Toolbar drawing tools) save that VC2 file, zip it and upload it as an attachment to your reply. If you aren't able to do this, please describe it in words.

I just wonder what you expected to use the JPG image file for (at about 68 feet across) even if you could create it it is unlikely that many other applications could allow you to open and view it satisafactorily.

The recommendation to print to a PDF psuedo-printer is fine in principle. The article that Virginia gave the link to discusses a 66" chart as big chart. Your chart is over 12 times that "big" chart. There is a second problem - the limits on the "Custom Postscript" page size in PDF outputs. The maximums vary according to which 3rd party product you try to use. Many have a limit around 10ft.

There is a limit on the number of pixels which can be exported in a JPG image. VCF doesn't check for this limit.

824in at 96dpi = 79104 pixels in a direction. This value exceeds 65768 an is probably the limiting value (from memory).

Try to reduce by 25 % the box/image width and try again. See whether this allows the process to complete.

RobinL

And maybe Robin will explain how to make a perfectly smooth circle - mine is squiggly.

 

Virginia

Virginia,

VCF is not a perfect graphic drawing engine. It produces graphics on the screen as pixel that is set as part of an object or it is not set. With drawing a circle at 96dpi, there will always be a staircase edge more obvious in in smaller diameter circles. Try creating circle with a thicker line and and the look at the view at 100% and 800% zoom see the difference in the rendering. So there is nothing you can do to improve this "wobbly" effect. A screen grab will show this effect, whereas chart output to PDF may not - it depends on the rendering resolution.

This effect is in contrast with other graphic drawing packages like photoshop, etc. These packages don't just use pixels of the one (user-defined colour) but add other colours (between the circle colour and the background colour) into the step spaces the give the eye the impression of a smoother outline.

Personally, I don't find this as much of problem compared with the inanbility to produce non-sold line types that can be printed thicker and hence seen at a distance on a large chart.

Now it sounds like there is an object with a large negative horizontal position that is off the canvas and "size to components" moves everything to be on a real canvas. The "size to components" should adjust the canvas to just include the bottom-most and right-most objects on the chart. I.E. it does what you would expect. It is not intended to move the left-most and top-most objects on the chart.

Please send the problem VC2 file to me here and I will try to give an explanation.