Peter Tarkkonen

I am using TMG for data entry and for some Journal HTML-reporting but also SecondSite.

With SS I want to publish some additional info (and web links) about places. Place comment field seems to work perfectly for this and also web links work fine.

However, I could not find excact help info how TMG uses this field. But after testing, it seemed to me, that TMG use this field only as comment field to be reached thru Master Place list.

Does using place comment field generate any issues with TMG, especally show up in Journals one way or other?

Also I would like to see this field one of "repeat-fields" and more important as a text field so formating would be easier.

Peter

Peter,

 

The challenge remains that somehow the TMG user has to tell TMG which specific name tag to use. That means that there's no easy way for TMG to provide what you want without adding a tag, and that's one way to use the NarrativeChildren tag, but you object to an additional tag. How do you want to tell TMG which name to use? You will have to describe how you want this to work.

 

Perhaps you are thinking that TMG should use the name tag with the highest date (or sort date) prior to the birth of the children, but that's problematic for several reasons and I doubt it would be implemented.

John,

my tought was that when one opens f.ex Father-Bio (double click "Father") window, over there you could choose name aswell. Same way as in all tags.

Automation here would probably cause more problems than help.

Peter

Thank you all for your replies.

NarrativeChildren tag would technically do the job. And it is a valuable tool in some cases.

In one particular case family name was "Poop" and it was changed at 1920's. However, there is still people living whos mothers or fathers birth name was "Poop". Living people do not want this family name to be seen anywhere. And I understand them.

However, NarrativeChildren does not help with SecondSite (but John Cardinal might have something coming up later). I use both; Journal and SS.

From TMG users point of view I do not like to fix something with additional tag.

In every other sentence except Child-sentence one can adjusted individual names. Maybe there is technical reson, but in any case I do not understand why this sentence should be handled differently.

Also one should keep in mind that TMG cleverly change output of this internal sentence, compines places f.ex. This make reading of Journal nicer because not every sentence is looking the same. NarrativeChildren is allways the same (unless one start changing them one by one)

I any case TMG is the greatest product available and I love to work with it. Just would like to make it 110%.

Peter

Peter,

 

There are two ways to control what names are used for the parents in the "Children of..." statement in the Journal:

 

1. Change the primary name of the parent - not very helpful if you want different names for different sets of children, and has other serious side effects.

 

2. Use the NarrativeChildren tag - the tool designed to let you customize that statement.

 

The default setting output of TMG's Journal reports follows long-standing genealogical convention by consistently using the primary (generally birth) names of participants. But you have tools to override those defaults.

Terry,

thank you for your reply. It was very important cause now I know that there is no easy solution.

NarrativeChildren tag could solve it, but in my mind should only be used in exceptional cases, but not in every case. TMG internal sentence also have all different forms, place consolidations etc.

And it is extra work.

I am a bit supprised that one can control name variations in all other tags but not in this children sentence. Probably the most important sentence in genealogy.

This way even children are a bit confused cause due to Journal they are children of mother/father who they have never heard about.

I Finland people use a lot married names, combinations and it is not that uncommon for people to change their names.

If divorced, mother many times change maiden name back and might change children names aswell. What is primary name of these individuals; Birth name, childhood name, name after divorce or name after marriage. Or second marrige. Or if middle name is used as standard instead of first name.

There is absolutely no rule to be build.

TMG has absolutely the greatest possibilities to control all names of people.

I think this option should be highly considered to be build in future TMG versions.

Peter

This might be a trivial question but at least I am a bit confused here.

I wonder how to influence to children sentence ie. "Children of xx and yy where as follows" when person has had many names during his/hers life.

This same sentence is used both in Journal reports and in SecondSite.

I want names to be as they were when children was born. This happens with married names, other name varianbles and also when person legally wanted to change his/hers name during life.

Is the only way to change Father/Morher on Individual Details window? Today I have used primary name (=I have fixed this to birth name) in this.

Also I do not want to add NarrativeChildren tag to all these cases.

How have you others solved this?

Peter

If I click City field and push F2, the list will look like (=no houses are listed and can not which to choose):

City, County, Lat/long1

City, County, Lat/Long2

City, County, Lat/Long3

City, County, Lat/Long4

OK. Sorry. There is no way around that.

 

The F2 list is a list of the sets of available place parts at that level. So at the City level, those are the sets of place parts available and will always display in the list.

 

You could add something unique (such as the identifier house name that I recommended) to a higher lever field such as the Temple field if you don't use it and enter an exclusion marker as the lead character so that the field is only used as an identifier in the F2 list.

 

Jim

Jim,

I have one idea, but I suppose it is more to wishlist again.

When using F2-list, could list show all levels. However, searching is done on level which list was opened from.

Maybe this will cause some other issue, but just a tought.

Peter

Peter: This doesn't work for me. I ran Reindex, Optomize, VFI three times in a row this morning and the error is still there. Interesting observation. I have a hole at the 28th position from the bottom of the list. I ran the filter on the picklist and determined the entry that should have been there. I then corrected that entry which removed it from inclusion by the filter. I reran the filter in PE and the hole was still at postion 28 from the end and on an individual that showed up in the list on the prior run. Soooo, I am using ID as the PR sort field so I don't have to contend with the holes for now.

It really sounded the same what I experienced.

I can not help more.

Peter

Usually shutting down TMG or running reindex will fix those for me.

I tend to get this quite often aswell.

After running Reindex, Optimize AND Validate I get it fixed. I mean running them all.

This is a feeling but if you do following, you get it more often:

1. After adding several people

2. Sort order primaryBirth date this appears more often than if sort in ID-number

3. I also feel that setting Collate Sequence to General instead SWEFIN helped, but this is just a feeling

Then scrolling up and down the explorer

Peter

That was not how I understood the request, Terry.

 

I "think" Peter's request is for a completely new color capability that only affects the Flags. I "think" the desire is to be able to define a color setting for each possible value of a Flag when you define the Flag itself. Then whenever you set the Flag to that value the display of the Flag text in the flag box will use the color setting for that value. Did I understand you correctly Peter?

Mike,

that was exactly my idea. You just said it so clear. Thank you!

Peter

Peter,

 

I'm not sure exactly what you are asking for, but I thing you can at least partly solve the problem by adding these Flags to the Add person screen. Then you would see them as you add new people and be reminded to set them correctly. You can do that by opening the Add Person screen (by starting to add a new person) and clicking Setup. On the screen that opens, click the Flags tab, and add the Flags you may want to set for each new person.

Terry,

I tried this flags into entry screen before and it was partly what I am looking for. However I did not like when the flags appear at the top of the person entry screen.

What I was looking for is colours INTO FLAG WINDOW so the flag text (full line) itself is coloured based on its own value.

Example

Ancestor = Y --> Ancestor flag in flag window is green

Ancestor = P (=possible) --> Ancestor flag in flag window blue

etc.

With colours there would be more info available in screen. Ofcause I can see real values of each flag but colour is very effective way to "communicate".

I allready have accent in use and I feel it is a great help.

Peter

If I click City field and push F2, the list will look like (=no houses are listed and can not which to choose):

City, County, Lat/long1

City, County, Lat/Long2

City, County, Lat/Long3

City, County, Lat/Long4

OK. Sorry. There is no way around that.

 

The F2 list is a list of the sets of available place parts at that level. So at the City level, those are the sets of place parts available and will always display in the list.

 

You could add something unique (such as the identifier house name that I recommended) to a higher lever field such as the Temple field if you don't use it and enter an exclusion marker as the lead character so that the field is only used as an identifier in the F2 list.

 

Jim

Thank you a lot Jim, at least now I know

Peter

This would be an other big help for me.

A field (=variable) to be used in sentences.

Example: Reasons of death

In Finland in death listing the reason of death (fever, heart attack, drowning etc.) was mentioned. There was several 10's which where used mainly, but all together there was several hundrets.

It would be nice to enter all these reason as a list to TMG and when adding death tag, just to choose one of the reasons.

Now if known I add this to memo [M2], but have to enter again and again. This repeat last 20 helps a bit, but is not a full solution.

Peter

Jim,

Places in system:

House1, City, County, Lat/long1

House2, City, County, Lat/Long2

House3, City, County, Lat/Long3

City, County, Lat/Long4

If I click City field and push F2, the list will look like (=no houses are listed and can not which to choose):

City, County, Lat/long1

City, County, Lat/Long2

City, County, Lat/Long3

City, County, Lat/Long4

If I click Address level (=house) and push F2, the list will look like (=no City, County place is listed at all)

House1, City, County, Lat/long1

House2, City, County, Lat/Long2

House3, City, County, Lat/Long3

Peter

Peter,

 

I am not sure I understand completely.

 

You have multiple addresses of the form "HouseN, City, County". You originally assigned them the same LatLong values because you wanted them to appear on an SS map. Unfortunately, using the same LatLong value meant that all the map markers were in the same place, one on top of the other.

 

Next, you changed the LatLong values slightly. This solved the SS Map problem because now the markers are not in the same place, but now there is an issue in TMG: when you search for places, there are many entries in the list. I am not sure where you are "searching for place" (I suspect it is when entering place information while adding or editing an event) and I am not sure why seeing multiple places is a bad thing. The houses were in different places, and so they are not the same place.

 

It sounds like you want the different places to be treated as the same place in some cases and as different places in other cases and I don't know how the software can do that.

 

Do I understand correctly?

John,

you understood the problem correctly and the point with SS also.

I hope my reply to Jim clarified a bit.

Peter

If you only enter City, County but add a different LatLong each time, you are creating multiple unique place records... all of which will show up in the Master Place List or the F2 list.

 

If you don't know the exact house location, enter a name for the house in the Detail field so that each place record will be visibly different.

Jim,

to avoid multible locations is one of those things I want to avoid.

It was so difficult for me to explain. Sorry about my language.

I have 4 places is systems:

House1, City, County, Lat/long1

House2, City, County, Lat/Long2

House3, City, County, Lat/Long3

City, County, Lat/Long4

This 4th one is needed if house is not known.

Then:

In tag entry screen if I click City field and push F2, the list will look like:

City, County, Lat/long1

City, County, Lat/Long2

City, County, Lat/Long3

City, County, Lat/Long4

I do not know which one to pick. Only difference is lat/long code!

Peter

Accent feature in TMG is great. This allows to indicate several issues with colour.

I also use many flags for different reasons. And they are very helpfull. But I also have to remember to set them.

When adding a lot of people, sometimes I forget to set some flags (we are human, aren't we?). In order to be precise I have made some error report and they work fine.

However, sort of accent feature in flag window would be a great help.

Example: Living flag should be set and sometimes I forget to ?. If this would be indicated by colour, I would not forget to set it.

Peter

I also use SecondSite and now have found a small annoying issue with TMG.

It is a bit difficult to explain but let me try with example

In TMG I have locations like:

House1, City, County

House2, City, County

and City, County (if House is not know)

etc.

These houses are separated in all sources so if somebody was born in House1 and died in House1, it was really the same location. From genealogy point of view very valuable info.

However, where House1 was and where House2 was, is in most cases not exactly know. So I gave them same lat/long codes cause they were located very near of each other.

If in SecondSite these Houses are in same map, map pointers will occur in exactly same place in map and nobody can see that there is 2 map pointers.

This map pointer over each other was solved by offseting lat/long codes a little bit (=I gave them a little bit different lat/long codes). Everything from SS maping point of view was solved.

But this offseting caused searching problem in TMG.

The problem: In tag entry window when serching CITY level, all locations which match to this City-County will show up. And there is many (in some cases over 20) because they have different lat/long codes. And it is very difficult to find out which one is correct.

When I had same lat/long code to all different Houses, this City-County showed only once.

I do not know how to solve it. Ofcause removing all lat/codes will be an easy answer, but then I loose SS map feature.

Is there a way to make/setup TMG in tag entry window to show these same City-County places only once, even lat/long codes are different?

Thank you!

Peter

PS. I have found Google Earth easy to find lat/long codes.

Peter,

 

You could, in theory, make the one person who you want the exhibit to appear for a Principal, and all others Witnesses, then set the Journal to not display Witnessed events. But I doubt you would want to do that because all other witnessed events will also be excluded.

 

An alternate suggestion is to create two different tag types for photos - one to be used in Journals, and the other for all other persons. Then exclude the later tag type from the Journal report. That would mean you have to attach the photo to two tags - one for those people who you want to have the photo in Journals, and the second for all others.

Terry,

thank you again Terry!

There might also be an easier solution which I am currently testing ie. using exclusion mark in wittness sentence. Actually my wittness sentence for "photo tag" is just "-".

From Journal report point of view it seems to work quite ok and sentence can be built based on attached people (=wittnesses), "People in photo are...".

Maybe you can comment if there is a risk hidden somewhere?

I also use Second Site, however SS will remove those sentences aswell. In SS I use linked images on events so in SS output with all photos would be appreciated; so there is some more testing to be done.

Merry Christmas!

Peter

It was a great idea to create tag into which group photos can be connected. Then all individuals can be connected as a wittness into this tag.

Unfortunatelly, in Journal report this photo will show multiple times. It will show up with each individual (all wittnesses). Can this be avoided so that one photo is only shown once?

Peter

Peter,

 

When I implemented the Add Married Names feature, I considered using the "after" date modifier and rejected it, mostly because it would not work for marriages that were already assigned an "after" Sort Date. (Michael's list is interesting, but all those date formas exist for a reason and might be used for an existing event.) I decided I wanted all the dates to follow the same rule and so I implemented the "+1 day" logic.

 

If a marriage date/sort date changes, the Name-Marr sort date is going to need attention and in most cases it will be obvious what is needed. If only the modifier changes, the "+1" day rule should yield a reasonable outcome without editing.

John,

why I am not supprised that you have thought it.

Very understandable logic.

Thank you!

Peter

You may be interested to know that when TMG Utility creates a married name record, you can configure it to copy the sort date of the marriage tag, but it adds one day to the sort date so that the married name tag always sorts after the marriage tag.

John,

actually I used TMG Utility to add some 400 Marriage name tags and those worked fine. I did notice this 1 day extra feature: Your help and support pages are excellent, everything seems to be documented.

However, thought to drop you an email: Mayde TMG Utility can instead add "after" in front of the day. Then sorting is correct, days are and will stay the same (even after later editing) and point is clear (=name is used after that day).

Peter

TMG Utility is a must product for all TMG users. Cannot survive without!

Note that to use Sort Dates you must be in Advanced data entry mode, not Beginner.

 

For multiple events on the same date where you want to “force” a particular order, most users simply put a Sort Date for the “other” events one day earlier or later. However, I prefer to keep the “real” or “event” date as part of what I enter for the "other" Sort Dates, and use a date modifier on the sort date in the "other" events to force the order. For example, all of the following Sort Dates contain the “real” date of 21 July, will sort event tags in the order below, and these tags will sort between any tags with similarly constructed 20 July and 22 July Sort Dates:

 

before 21 Jul 2006

before 21 Jul 2006?

say 21 Jul 2006

say 21 Jul 2006?

circa 21 Jul 2006

circa 21 Jul 2006?

21 Jul 2006 <<------ This is probably the sort date for the "actual" event

21 Jul 2006?

after 21 Jul 2006

after 21 Jul 2006?

21 Jul 2006-22 Jul 2006

21 Jul 2006-22 Jul 2006?

21 Jul 2006-23 Jul 2006 [etc.]

21 Jul 2006 or 22 Jul 2006

21 Jul 2006 or 22 Jul 2006?

21 Jul 2006 or 23 Jul 2006 [etc.]

21 Jul 2006 to 22 Jul 2006

21 Jul 2006 to 22 Jul 2006?

21 Jul 2006 to 23 Jul 2006 [etc.]

 

Thus you can specify the order of an unlimited number of tags that are all associated with the same date. And these "other" sort dates will remind you of the "real" date, e.g. 21 Jul 2006.

 

Hope this gives you ideas,

Michael,

you surelly gave some ideas.

I fully agreed with you to keep dates correct. "After" with marriage date will work with me (and actually is quite correct cause marriage name is not on that day but after ;-))

Thank you!

Peter

Is there a way to control sort order of marriage-name sentences?

My purpose is to get marriage-name sentence to be outputed in reports after marriage-event sentence.

If date (and sort date) are the same in both marriage-event and marriage-name, TMG individual window show them in right order.

However, in Journal report the order in quite random. I have even examples where same individual has 2 marriages and sentence order is 1st marriage-name sentence, 1st marriage-event sentence, 2nd marriage-event sentence and then 2nd marriage-name sentence.

Peter

Peter,

 

Either the FGS or the Individual Narrative. I prefer the narrative because that is how I output to SS and they can approve not only the data, but the narrative and add to it

Good point to test Individual Narrative. Thank You!

Peter

Dear Colleques,

If a person wants to check what data exists about him/her in database, what is your process to work this out?

(In Finland this is controlled by the law ie. if a database of people exists, everybody has to have a change to check his/hers own data)

My thought was to generate a refilled Family Group Sheet, save it to desktop and then send it by email. Person could check it and even fill additional data and then email it back.

Even to make a toolbar button to start the report.

Some questions raised:

- There is many different report output types in TMG, what might suits best for "electrical questionare"?

(Keeping in mind that not all people have Word or Excel)

- Can Subject name (or any other variable) be included in file name. Variable [F] work in report title but how about file name?

(Then several files could be saved at the same time.)

- How about direct emailing from TMG, has anybody tried that?

I started to use Second Site (absolutely great tool!) this summer and published data in web. Since then there has been a lot of (and only positive) feedback.

Peter