Creative uses of composite TMG charts

[Mike Talbot 0]

Thank you, Virginia, for posting the message where I could not upload attachments. It seems that any attachment larger than the low-300s KB will not upload to TMG forums from my computer. The same large attachments will upload to e-mail. Any ideas, anyone?

 

The attached chart (311 KB) shows a use of color (using Virginia's color palette) on regular sized charts (letter size paper). This chart honors Lafayette and other American Revolution leaders at the Battle of Yorktown.

 

The original chart displayed 5 generations of Lafayette ancestors. But, at 400 KB it would not upload to this forum.

 

Mike Talbot

For those with similar problems, try using the MS Windows Internet Explorer instead of standard AOL (or other service) to communicate with this forum.

 

 

A work-around found for large JPG attachment upload failures to this forum using AOL:

 

JPG files as large as 880 KB upload fine with the Windows Internet Explorer. 311 KB was the largest JPG upload that was successful using AOL. The Windows Explorer did fail on a 2 meg JPG file. No attachment sizes between the 880 KB success and the 2 meg failure have been tested.

 

 

The attached 440 KB had failed to upload in a previous attempt. It is the original 5 gen. ancestor chart on Lafayette mentioned in my previous post in this topic. It is a composite (several people copied from other charts) with one generation of siblings with spouses and two VCF hand edited overlapped generations. It fits on one legal size sheet.

 

 

Good luck,

 

Mike Talbot

[Mike Talbot 0]

Did you ever reach a temporary impasse or become bored with your current reseach genealogy project? When that happens to me, I put that project aside and look for data on an interesting person (to me) of historical importance or celebrity. An exciting new project always restores my enthusiasm for more serious but less thrilling genealogical research.

 

The attached VCF charts are the results of such tangential projects. The first chart shows a line of ascent from Queen Paola of Belgium to the marquis de LaFayette (see previous post). The chart continues down to her heirs. The second chart displays Sophia Loren's family. Italian connections?

 

Each chart was designed and hand edited in VCF to fit on letter size paper. If you have any questions on the techniques involved in the hand editing of the charts in this topic, ask, but please be specific.

 

Regards,

Mike Talbot

[GenerationGoneBy 0]

Mike,

Do you know how many pixels are across an 8x11 piece of paper? I'd like to do a 5 generation pedigree chart in VCF, and have it fit on one sheet of paper. Just need to know what size to make the boxes. Once I had it set up, then I could run that same report supplying the right ancestor another 89 times and have a set of 5 gen pedigree charts that are pretty. Not all that fond of the pedigree charts out of TMG.

[RobinL 0]

Mike,

Do you know how many pixels are across an 8x11 piece of paper?

 

Teresa,

 

VCF works at 96 pixels per inch. So you need to work out the non-printable margins on your printer to get the available distance, etc and calculate from there.

 

Robin

[GenerationGoneBy 0]

Thanks Robin. I am going to have to narrow down the information I print. I can get it to 8 wide, but it's 13 long. Maybe a smaller font. Will just have to play with it a little.

[Mike Talbot 0]

Mike,

Do you know how many pixels are across an 8x11 piece of paper? I'd like to do a 5 generation pedigree chart in VCF, and have it fit on one sheet of paper. Just need to know what size to make the boxes. Once I had it set up, then I could run that same report supplying the right ancestor another 89 times and have a set of 5 gen pedigree charts that are pretty. Not all that fond of the pedigree charts out of TMG.

 

The nearest I can tell there are about 125 pixels per inch horizontal and about 100 pixels per inch vertical. Typically, the boxes in my charts are 176 x 76 pixels (they vary considerably, vertically, when there is no picture).

 

If you use VCF to hand overlap (move) the first two generations you can make your boxes wider.

 

Can you describe what you don't like about TMG generated charts? Describe what you want, instead? Maybe post an example? TMG/VCF has such a wide variety of configurable options, maybe someone here can help make your charts the way that you want them.

 

Good luck,

Mike

[Virginia Blakelock 0]

Teresa -

 

There is a screenshot of a one-page 6-generation Ancestor with Siblings chart with Lifespan data here.

 

This is 8.5 x 11 paper, printed landscape. I moved the boxes closer together to get 6-gen on a page. A 5-gen might not need any editing.

 

Box width for something like this is about 147 for 8 pt font , about 185 for 9 pt.

 

Depending on how much data you include and whether siblings also, you should be able to get 5-gen on a page without too much trouble.

 

Virginia

[GenerationGoneBy 0]

I must have too much information.

 

To answer Mike. The pedigree charts printed out of TMG are frankly ugly. They are plain and boring. I would love to see the names surrounded by boxes, preferably let me pick a fancy frame and let the report itself shrink the text enough to fit in the boxes. I also find them hard to read because of the way the lines from the generations run through the boxes for the next generation. If you don't know what I mean, run a blank chart.

 

The box size I was using is 145 pixels. The font is Comic Sans MS 8. 6 for lines.

 

Ran it on my first 5 generations. The resulting chart was 8"wide x 14 long. I think the key is Virginia is using lifespan data. I am trying to use the same basic data that TMG uses on it's pedigree charts, B, D, B, husbands have marriage information.

 

The boxes are just plain boxes. Using a frame would add to that size.

 

One thing I have often which TMG could do was print a pretty 5 generation pedigree chart. Put the information in a fairly decorative box. All for a nice font. One thing you have to admit about FTM is it has pretty charts.

 

I ran a set of 5 generation pedigree charts this morning. It ran 89 pages. I don't want to have to hand edit a VCF chart every time I want to print something like that.

[Virginia Blakelock 0]

 

Teresa, first screenshot is one 5-gen chart per page; second is two 5-gen charts per page. Standard 8.5x11 paper - landscape

 

Settings:

 

Ancestor box chart

Left to Right orientation

Diagram location 20,5

Gap between boxes 10,20

 

Boxes: width 166 (default), border Black 1-pixel, Shadow. Fill: your option.

 

Text: for 1 chart/page: 9pt-name, 8pt-data; for 2 charts/page 8-name, 6-data; title 11pt - your Comic Sans font

 

Data types: default, except changed Place preposition to (blank)

 

Other tab - Miscellaneous: Remove blank lines, Allow word wrap, others are defaults

 

NOTES:

Post-processing:

---Tools > Diagram > Diagram measurements > 11, 8.5

---File > Page Setup > Landscape

---Center the title if you wish

---Check File > Print Preview in case you need to center chart better

---You will need to print out a copy and verify that your printer will handle 1-pixel lines; may need 2 pixel.

 

Hope this helps -

 

Virginia

[GenerationGoneBy 0]

Virginia,

 

I think that's my issue. When I run a five generation chart, I have 16 boxes on the far right hand side. I am trying to get a chart similar to a pedigree chart, and I don't think it's possible from VCF for me.

 

I tried to upload a copy of one for my dad, but I am having the same problem as Mike, the forum wouldn't allow me to upload it.

 

But it also ran 8 wide by 14 long.

 

I can do a four generation pedigree chart (6x7)

 

[Virginia Blakelock 0]

Teresa -

 

If you'd like, send me the image and I'll see if I can upload it. Rightclick here to copy my e-mail address.

 

Virginia

[Virginia Blakelock 0]

Teresa -

 

I see your dilemma. Maybe do the paternal and maternal lines separately? Generally, how many more generations do you have going back?

 

Virginia

[Virginia Blakelock 0]

How about something along the lines of Patt Rickett's booklet (inspired by your idea) a couple of years ago on the forum here?

 

For lurkers: the VCF forum is set to show just the last 90 days of messages. To see older messages: on the Main VCF Forum screen where it lists all the messages, go to the bottom of the screen, down arrow on 'From: 90 days', select 'Show All' and then press the GO button. This is not a permanent change, so if you see a message you want to come back to, save the address. To save the address for a specific message, look for the link at the top right corner of that message - for example Post#38. Click on that link and you can copy/save the address for that single message.

 

Virginia

[GenerationGoneBy 0]

Virginia,

Thanks I had forgotten all about Patt's book. I think I can do fine with 4 generations, just not five. I ran the 5 generation pedigree chart for my talk to DD's class and it ran 89 pages. Of course, some lines I don't know before 1820 others run until 1600s. Some lines are easy, some lines aren't.

 

I believe Patts book is 4 generations. I will have to read that whole thread again. I did create such a book once, but have no idea what I did with it. I also printed a full chart out once and taped it altogether in my Living Room. It was nice and big.

 

I do fine when I can set the setting in VCF and have it print, but I am terrible at using it to move boxes, create new ones etc. Maybe you, Mike or Robin might consider a Primer for VCF for those of us who are challenged in this area.

[Terry Reigel 0]

I do fine when I can set the setting in VCF and have it print, but I am terrible at using it to move boxes, create new ones etc. Maybe you, Mike or Robin might consider a Primer for VCF for those of us who are challenged in this area.

Teresa, have you looked at my article on Editing Charts? It doen't address adding new boxes, but does explain some of the issues around moving exiting boxes and their connecting lines.

[RobinL 0]

I do fine when I can set the setting in VCF and have it print, but I am terrible at using it to move boxes, create new ones etc. Maybe you, Mike or Robin might consider a Primer for VCF for those of us who are challenged in this area.

 

Take a look at the section on Editing Connecting Lines in VCF (GMTOOTMG, page 238+) as that will give you an idea of the issues involved. There may be a case for a separate VCF Primer that talks about the do's and don'ts in chart construction. I have not tried to compose one as it could quickly became out of date if some of the quirks were adjusted in an update or there was a major version upgrade. (I have a list of about 150 reported quirks and requests for enhancements but I have no idea when or if there will be a change in status of any of them.)

 

It would be better for you to describe the operation that you are trying to do and for some of us to describe how we would approach it. Because VCF editing can be very flexible there are usually several ways to achieve an outcome. Secondly, some sequences are more prone to user error than others, so the sequence of operations is important to get the desired result in the minimum number of steps.

 

I perform hundreds of these editing operations on the reshaped (compacted) charts that I create on an almost daily basis. HINT: As a general rule, it is better to copy then paste then edit the pasted object than creating an object from the tool bar - the toolbar objects can't always be edited to have the same propertis as the ones already on the chart!

[Mike Talbot 0]

Virginia,

 

I think that's my issue. When I run a five generation chart, I have 16 boxes on the far right hand side. I am trying to get a chart similar to a pedigree chart, and I don't think it's possible from VCF for me.

 

I tried to upload a copy of one for my dad, but I am having the same problem as Mike, the forum wouldn't allow me to upload it.

 

But it also ran 8 wide by 14 long.

 

I can do a four generation pedigree chart (6x7)

 

Teresa:

 

There is no way to make a readable, complete 5 gen. ancestor, full information and images, chart in TMG or any other genealogy program, including FTM, unless you overlap at least one generation. Notice, the left side of the chart type under discussion, is mostly vacant white paper. Overlapping gens. makes use of this otherwise wasted space.

 

My recommendations to make a 5 gen chart (the only way that I know):

 

Keep your current ancestor chart definition set as backup.

 

Make a new chart definition set by- Report> Ancestor Chart > Add> name the new chart definition set (starting with the letters Anc…)

 

Reduce the number of lines in a box and its height by:

 

Chart style- without shadow use gaps 10 and 5, (with shadow use gaps 5 and 5).

 

Options> Data Types>(for each Box Type)1 Birth* Group Abbr PlacePrep Place

 

2 Death* Group “ “

 

(place the marriage data in the box type(s) of your choice on line 3). This should significantly reduce the average height of the boxes.

 

Boxes (size 176 x 0 pixels, you can experiment later)

 

Use 8 pt. R font for name

 

Use 6 pt. R for other data (I know, I need reading glasses to see that tiny font, too)

 

I like dark blue box borders and white fill.

 

Lines- I like solid red color.

 

Other- (size important options, only)

 

Identifiers, none

 

Text align., left

 

Places, check- city, county, state, country

 

Images- on left, 68 x 72 (maximums)

 

Miscellaneous, check only Remove blank lines and Allow word wrap.

 

Set all other options to your taste, but remember the goal is to keep it small.

 

Generate TMG chart using the above options set and ready to overlap 1 generation in VCF:

 

Step 1. In VCF select the 4 right hand generations. View>Zoom to fit,

 

.Position mouse to the lower left corner of the chart. Hold down the left mouse key and move the mouse pointer to the upper left corner of the mid-1^st generation. Release mouse key. See first attachment (the tiny squares at the corners and mid-points of each selected component are not seen in the attachment, but you will see them in VCF).

 

Step 2. Position mouse over any selected component on the right side of chart. Hold down the left mouse key and move directly to the right. Be patient and you will see a ghost image of the moved portion of the chart. When the ghost of the rightmost box is on the inside of the page divider, release the mouse key. See second attachment for result.

 

Step 3. You see connector lines covering the subject person (far left box). Select that box by clicking on it. Click on the move to front icon in menu (a tiny yellow box covering the corner of 2 gray boxes). Voila, the subject box now covers the connector lines and you have a letter size chart. To trim the chart- tools> diagram> size to components. See the third attachment for resulting 5 gen letter size chart.

 

Now, experiment with chart definition parameters and edit your chart until you get it your way. If you like the gray shadows on boxes, you will need to overlap 2 generations. Questions? This took a long time to write, hope I didn't leave something important out or make an error.

 

Good luck,

 

Mike Talbot

 

[GenerationGoneBy 0]

Mike,

 

While I like your number 2, I would still need to shrink the boxes somehow. It's not the left to right that's causing my issue, it's my top to bottom. I can easily get 5 generations across 8 inches, I just can't get 16 boxes top to bottom. By moving the first generation over, though I can make the boxes wider, so maybe I can make the shorter. Don't have time to play with it right now, but I will see what I can do later.

 

The thing is, if TMG printed pedigree charts with boxes, I wouldn't even care to use VCF. I have seen other programs print very nice pedigree charts, even UFT had boxes.

 

But since I can shrink it to 8x 14, I can always use long paper, so if I needed to print it, I could. Or I could unmark use place styles.

 

Thanks for ideas.

 

Robin, when I have some me time, I will reread that chapter and actually try a few things. I understand not wanting to put in the time if it's going to totally change before you can get finished.

[Mike Talbot 0]

Mike,

 

While I like your number 2, I would still need to shrink the boxes somehow. It's not the left to right that's causing my issue, it's my top to bottom. I can easily get 5 generations across 8 inches, I just can't get 16 boxes top to bottom. By moving the first generation over, though I can make the boxes wider, so maybe I can make the shorter. Don't have time to play with it right now, but I will see what I can do later.

 

The thing is, if TMG printed pedigree charts with boxes, I wouldn't even care to use VCF. I have seen other programs print very nice pedigree charts, even UFT had boxes.

 

But since I can shrink it to 8x 14, I can always use long paper, so if I needed to print it, I could. Or I could unmark use place styles.

 

Thanks for ideas.

 

Robin, when I have some me time, I will reread that chapter and actually try a few things. I understand not wanting to put in the time if it's going to totally change before you can get finished.

The first half of my previous message concerned how to change the chart definition options to reduce the height of boxes. Unless you have an image for most everyone in the fifth gen., the options shown in the previous message will make the chart fit on 8 x less than 11".

 

Those programs that do show a complete 5 gen pedigree do so by overlapping one or two generations. The chart in my example is 8 x less than 9".

 

A pedigree chart is just a 5 gen ancestor chart with reasonably complete information on each person (b, m, d). What line each piece of data is on is not important. You can define the chart with or without boxes in TMG.

 

Hope it works for you,

Mike

[GenerationGoneBy 0]

Mike,

If you look at the example posted, THANKS VIRGINIA, I am not using images at all. Are you saying I can define a PEDIGREE chart in TMG with boxes? I don't see that option. That's what I would like, but only see the option for boxes in reports sent to VCF.

 

One thing I see is you have the date and place in one data field. I have been using two. I haven't got the time or patience to try that tonight (taught Kindergarten today) but will try it tomorrow. I think that may save me enough space in the ones were I have

 

B. 14 Jun 1865

in VA

 

If I can squeeze that all to

B.14 Jun 1865 in VA

 

 

then that would save me at least ten rows. Also noticed that I have a blank line where places aren't given that I could lose altogether. I may actually be able to keep my place styles, which I prefer. <G> I changed just the women and almost got it within 11!

 

I would need to then move the first generation as you said to get it within 8 inches, but that's easily doable. I can't thank you guys enough! I am so excited. I have longed for a chart like this for ages. Now I just have to make the changes to the men and print it out. If I can get my page to work, the later ones ought to work fine.

[Virginia Blakelock 0]

Teresa, did you mean you want the same info in a VCF chart as in a Pedigree report? That can be done, as in 1 below. For the Box contents for everyone I used:

 

Birth*Abbr Date PlacePrep Place

Marriage* Group Abbr Date PlacePrep Place

Death* Group Abbr Date PlacePrep Place

 

If you want your VCF chart to look like a Pedigree report, then make the box lines and fill Transparent (as in 2 below), left-align the text, and optionally use the Box contents in the list above.

 

I really like the way you have your boxes set up (3 below); the text looks elegant centered and reads really well. You have the states abbreviated which helps. It would be nice if you could keep that look and still get it on one page.

 

Bolding names may be taking up a tiny bit more room.

 

Make a trial run in your original chart with your same settings but on the Other tab > Misc: tick 'Remove blank lines' and 'Allow word wrap' if you have not already. See if that helps.

 

Also try Birth*Abbr Date PlacePrep Place for say the focus person only and see what that does. Might save you time if, with each of these changes, you make a new report definition with a new name (using Add) so you don't have to go back and reset your own configuration.

 

Virginia

Edited October 10, 2008 by Virginia Blakelock

[Robert Jacobs 0]

These are wonderful little charts. But ho are you folks getting the abbreviations for state names in? I don't see that option for the ancestor box chart.

 

Thanks & all good wishes.

 

 

formerprof

[Mike Talbot 0]

Mike,

If you look at the example posted, THANKS VIRGINIA, I am not using images at all. Are you saying I can define a PEDIGREE chart in TMG with boxes? I don't see that option. That's what I would like, but only see the option for boxes in reports sent to VCF.

 

One thing I see is you have the date and place in one data field. I have been using two. I haven't got the time or patience to try that tonight (taught Kindergarten today) but will try it tomorrow. I think that may save me enough space in the ones were I have

 

B. 14 Jun 1865

in VA

 

If I can squeeze that all to

B.14 Jun 1865 in VA

 

 

then that would save me at least ten rows. Also noticed that I have a blank line where places aren't given that I could lose altogether. I may actually be able to keep my place styles, which I prefer. <G> I changed just the women and almost got it within 11!

 

I would need to then move the first generation as you said to get it within 8 inches, but that's easily doable. I can't thank you guys enough! I am so excited. I have longed for a chart like this for ages. Now I just have to make the changes to the men and print it out. If I can get my page to work, the later ones ought to work fine.

 

We have had a semantics problem. You were using correct TMG terminology where a PEDIGREE is a PDF format chart-like report. I was thinking in generic genealogy terms where a Pedigree Chart = Seize Quartiers = a 5 gen Ancestry Chart. I was wrong (or right about the wrong thing).

 

I stopped using the TMG Pedigree report way back in the TMG 4 days and forgot about it until your last message jogged my memory. Reasons: TMG-PDF output is inflexible, unattractive, no images, I have had a multitude of PDF related problems and then- VCF lights up my day (I'm predjudiced toward VCF).

 

The Compressed Pedigree is not too bad, if you don't often have trouble with PDF and can settle for incomplete data.

 

All the things that I wrote were true, but only about VCF charts. Please forgive my misunderstanding. You could produce a chart identical to the Pedigree one that you posted using VCF.

 

If you must use the TMG PDF Pedigree report, add to your Wish List:

Overlap the first (or first two) generation(s), there's lots of room for that.

 

You might still try the 6 pt. font (and different fonts) for all but the name (and eliminate prepositions, I never liked cyber-English. It looks so computer generated <g>). I hope that all the VCF related stuff in this topic will be useful to someone, someday.

 

Best wishes and mea culpa,

Mike Talbot

[Virginia Blakelock 0]

Mike, I'm confused by Teresa's Pedigree reference also - as you can see. I thought your suggestions for compacting her chart were great - and I learned a few new things.

 

Virginia

[Mike Talbot 0]

These are wonderful little charts. But ho are you folks getting the abbreviations for state names in? I don't see that option for the ancestor box chart.

 

Thanks & all good wishes.

 

 

formerprof

 

I'm far too lazy to type Louisiana, Connecticut. etc. So, I just type in LA, CT, etc. for the state when I define a person's data. It also saves valuable real-estate on charts and reports.

 

Cheers,

Mike Talbot