System Freeze on trying to export VCF chart to JPG

[skolnick 0]

I'm having trouble exporting a descendant box chart to JPG (or, for that matter, BMP). The chart is large -- perhaps a thousand names, many with thumbnail photos. (It measures 824 inches x 17" by VCF's rulers.)

 

After I make the selections and click "Export," my system freezes. All other Windows functions are immobilized. After several minutes (like 15), VCF gives me an Windows error that it has crashed.

 

If file size is indeed the issue here, what's a better way to export VCF files for display?

 

Paul Skolnick

[sam.m 0]

If file size is indeed the issue here, what's a better way to export VCF files for display?

 

As a test, does it work if you turn off the images?

[skolnick 0]

If file size is indeed the issue here, what's a better way to export VCF files for display?

 

As a test, does it work if you turn off the images?

 

 

Sam,

 

I turned off the images, as you suggested... but it still hangs. It reports the size of the uncompressed image as 299,792 KB (which is huge, but still about 10 per cent of the size of the uncompressed image with the images turned on).

 

skolnick

[RobinL 0]

There is a limit on the number of pixels which can be exported in a JPG image. VCF doesn't check for this limit.

 

 

824in at 96dpi = 79104 pixels in a direction. This value exceeds 65768 an is probably the limiting value (from memory).

 

Try to reduce by 25 % the box/image width and try again. See whether this allows the process to complete.

 

RobinL

[skolnick 0]

I tried a number of experiments reducing box and image size, and reducing the settings for box separation... and still crashed the export function.

 

Other options?

 

(Is Visual Chart Form a third-party vendor? I'm wondering if having stand-alone VCF software might not give me greater export capacity.)

 

skolnick

[Virginia Blakelock 0]

In an article last year, the Ottawa TMG users group discussed the various VCF file formats and characteristics of each, including recommendations for printing. See page 3 of the article here.

 

Virginia

[RobinL 0]

I just wonder what you expected to use the JPG image file for (at about 68 feet across) even if you could create it it is unlikely that many other applications could allow you to open and view it satisafactorily.

 

The recommendation to print to a PDF psuedo-printer is fine in principle. The article that Virginia gave the link to discusses a 66" chart as big chart. Your chart is over 12 times that "big" chart. There is a second problem - the limits on the "Custom Postscript" page size in PDF outputs. The maximums vary according to which 3rd party product you try to use. Many have a limit around 10ft.

[Virginia Blakelock 0]

Paul -

 

Are there ways you can modify the design to make it more manageable - break it down into say 4 charts, change the orientation (left-to-right is more compact than top-to-bottom), perhaps include less data?

 

Virginia

[skolnick 0]

Sorry. I've been sidetracked on an unrelated project for a few weeks and am just getting back to this issue.

 

I've come up with a way to replicate online a VCF wall chart... to some extent. You can see what I'm playing around with here -- http://www.paulskolnick.com/tree.html.

 

The steps are these -- 1) export JPG of the full family tree from VCF. 2) Open exported JPG in PhotoShop CS3. 3) Use PhotoShop's "Zoomify" feature to create an online, zoom-able family tree.

 

To my eye, the results are much better than the clunky add-ons TMG and VCF provide. For one thing, much of the data about individuals is on the chart. For another, each individual has a thumbnail photo (not allowed, as best I could tell, in any of the other add-ons or methods.

 

The issue is how best to share with an unlimited number of others the full scope of the family tree... and to do it in a way that will allow for additions and changes relatively easily. In other words, the VCF files BECOMES the virtual wall chart... and pretty standard web technology would allow the addition of hotspots, etc. to jump immediately to an individual.

 

Can the tree be broken up? Yes, it can be. However, I'm notificing that spacing becomes an issue in trying to add individual branches into a cohesive whole in PhotoShop. The whole in that case is, graphically, less than the sum of its parts.

 

Look forward to any ideas you may have.

 

skolnick

[Mike Talbot 0]

Sorry. I've been sidetracked on an unrelated project for a few weeks and am just getting back to this issue.

 

I've come up with a way to replicate online a VCF wall chart... to some extent. You can see what I'm playing around with here -- http://www.paulskolnick.com/tree.html.

 

The steps are these -- 1) export JPG of the full family tree from VCF. 2) Open exported JPG in PhotoShop CS3. 3) Use PhotoShop's "Zoomify" feature to create an online, zoom-able family tree.

 

To my eye, the results are much better than the clunky add-ons TMG and VCF provide. For one thing, much of the data about individuals is on the chart. For another, each individual has a thumbnail photo (not allowed, as best I could tell, in any of the other add-ons or methods.

 

The issue is how best to share with an unlimited number of others the full scope of the family tree... and to do it in a way that will allow for additions and changes relatively easily. In other words, the VCF files BECOMES the virtual wall chart... and pretty standard web technology would allow the addition of hotspots, etc. to jump immediately to an individual.

 

Can the tree be broken up? Yes, it can be. However, I'm notificing that spacing becomes an issue in trying to add individual branches into a cohesive whole in PhotoShop. The whole in that case is, graphically, less than the sum of its parts.

 

Look forward to any ideas you may have.

 

skolnick

 

 

I liked your display. I looked at your example and don’t see a problem, except display was a bit blurred using aol. It was slightly less blurred using MS Explorer for display. That blur problem is probably with my aol (along with other of my problems), since the symptoms changed in subsequent calls.

 

 

This doesn't address the VCF freeze prroblem. I recommend that you try the following chart definition parameters. They should at least improve your chart in size and appearance.

 

 

Set box connector line lengths to the minimum allowed limit.

 

 

Major reduction in chart length by TMG chart definition options that cut down number of lines per box as follows:

 

 

Under data types use

 

For Focus person, Descendants, Spouses, etc.

 

use

 

for b, d, m, single line - Group Abbr Date Place (everything that fits for the event takes only one line)

 

for Place preposition - select blank.

 

 

Boxes:

 

Try width around 176 (a little wider box will result in far fewer average lines per box)

 

Consider a smaller box-border line width.

 

Set minimum box height to 0.

 

 

<H1 style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Other</H1>Misc.

 

Select Remove blank lines (gets rid of lots of blank lines)

 

Allow word wrap (prevents truncation in long name and data lines)

 

 

<H1 style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Text</H1><H1 style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"> try fonts</H1>Names Tahoma 8 b or 8 r

 

Data lines 6 r or 7 r

 

 

<H1 style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Images</H1>Try maximum width around 68

 

Good luck,

Mike Talbot

[skolnick 0]

MIKE,

 

Thanks for the great ideas. I tried them step by step and -- sadly -- the system still crashed.

 

Reducing the link distances, box borders, etc to minimums did not substantially reduce the horizontal dimension of the chart. (It did cut the vertical by a little less than 50 per cent.

 

Also, jpg size on export reduced minimally -- from about 299 MB to 288 MB. (I suspect we're still over VCF's maximums with that.)

 

As far as cloudiness of the image posted online, I suspect some of that is in the conversion process to JPG... and some may be in the AOL browser.

 

So the questions remains -- how to display on the web the huge expanse of this family? The limitation seems to be in VCF's lack of controls on its export features. I mean, it'll send a high-res file to the printing company... but won't allow export to relatively high-end standard graphics software.

 

skolnick

[John Cardinal 0]

Also, jpg size on export reduced minimally -- from about 299 MB to 288 MB. (I suspect we're still over VCF's maximums with that.)

I think someone explained that it's the dimensions of the image that cause the problem, not the number of bytes in the file. What are the dimensions of the chart as it stands now? Can you manipulate the chart to make it wider and not as tall?

 

So the questions remains -- how to display on the web the huge expanse of this family? The limitation seems to be in VCF's lack of controls on its export features. I mean, it'll send a high-res file to the printing company... but won't allow export to relatively high-end standard graphics software.

I believe the limitation is the JPG file type.

 

Second Site will create arbitrarily large charts that are pure HTML. I've used it to create charts with thousands of members. The Second Site charts are not as flexible as VCF charts; you can't include pictures and the dates are limited to the lifespan of the person. On the other hand, names in the charts are automatically linked (back and forth) to person page entries that can contain pictures and the full event details for the person so the full detail is available.

 

The Second Site example site has a couple relatively small charts. In those charts, only some of the names are links because most of the people in the TMG database are excluded from the site. Still, they should give you an idea and if you need an example of a large chart, let me know and I will try to find one. (They're everywhere, but still hard to find! )

[Mike Talbot 0]

MIKE,

 

Thanks for the great ideas. I tried them step by step and -- sadly -- the system still crashed.

 

Reducing the link distances, box borders, etc to minimums did not substantially reduce the horizontal dimension of the chart. (It did cut the vertical by a little less than 50 per cent.

 

Also, jpg size on export reduced minimally -- from about 299 MB to 288 MB. (I suspect we're still over VCF's maximums with that.)

 

As far as cloudiness of the image posted online, I suspect some of that is in the conversion process to JPG... and some may be in the AOL browser.

 

So the questions remains -- how to display on the web the huge expanse of this family? The limitation seems to be in VCF's lack of controls on its export features. I mean, it'll send a high-res file to the printing company... but won't allow export to relatively high-end standard graphics software.

 

skolnick

The blurry poblem is definitly with my aol display. If I use MS explorer for display and slowly and carefully expand a section of your example chart, it displays perfectly clear.

 

I think that John's message on the freeze problem is correct. The problem may not be related to byte size of the file, but rather the width or length of your chart in pixels.

 

In a message (see above in this topic), Robin stated that the maximum size of a jpg image side is about 65000 pixles (dots). VCF outputs 96 pixels per inch to jpg files. If Robin is correct (she always is on this kind of thing), I would assume that the jpg spec uses a 16 bit unsigned binary number as its pixel counter (actual max number = 65535). Robin indicated that this max linear measurement is a jpg format limit, not an artificial VCF limit.

 

Try some experiments with this consideration. Please specify width, length and file size of both your successful (your hyperlinked example display) and failed experiments in future messages. (naturally, the failed ones wouldn't have a file size)

 

Your example display is great! It's fantastic that you have gathered all of those portraits. If I can help let me know,

 

Mike Talbot

PS: to my wish list, add that VCF actully follow the lengths for connector lines as specified by the user configuration when at all possible. VCF lines come out much longer and waste a lot of inches in a chart. On small charts (letter, legal size and a little bigger) one can hand edit out the waste. On a huge chart, like yours, when you really need it, hand editing is impractical.

 

Sorry for the garbled last half of my prior message. The forum wysiwyg editor is still a bit wild at times.

[RobinL 0]

I googled "JPG size limits" and found a number of sites that suggest that 65K is the technical limit, while some some image processing tools cut-out at 30K in either direction.

 

Also, it seems as if TIFF does not have such a small limit.

 

And if you have the right software the latest PostScript/PDf has a limit of 300K per side.

 

I think that your problem may be due to the 3rd party ULead tools that uses to process JPG files.

 

You may do better to output to an appropriate PDF psuedo printer.

 

I don't think it is a problem of VCF's making but the image format that you are trying to use.

[Mike Talbot 0]

I googled "JPG size limits" and found a number of sites that suggest that 65K is the technical limit, while some some image processing tools cut-out at 30K in either direction.

 

Also, it seems as if TIFF does not have such a small limit.

 

And if you have the right software the latest PostScript/PDf has a limit of 300K per side.

 

I think that your problem may be due to the 3rd party ULead tools that uses to process JPG files.

 

You may do better to output to an appropriate PDF psuedo printer.

 

I don't think it is a problem of VCF's making but the image format that you are trying to use.

 

In 7.03, VCF Export has only 3 output format options: JPG, BMP and EMF(whatever that is).

 

To test a large chart (21 x136 inches), the following exported file sizes resulted:

 

JPG 3,474

BMP 76,209

EMF 48,836

(VC2) 47,845

There are no other options in VCF for export output file type.

 

What to do? Help,

Mike Talbot

[RobinL 0]

I googled "JPG size limits" and found a number of sites that suggest that 65K is the technical limit, while some some image processing tools cut-out at 30K in either direction.

 

Also, it seems as if TIFF does not have such a small limit.

 

And if you have the right software the latest PostScript/PDf has a limit of 300K per side.

 

I think that your problem may be due to the 3rd party ULead tools that uses to process JPG files.

 

You may do better to output to an appropriate PDF psuedo printer.

 

I don't think it is a problem of VCF's making but the image format that you are trying to use.

 

In 7.03, VCF Export has only 3 output format options: JPG, BMP and EMF(whatever that is).

 

To test a large chart (21 x136 inches), the following exported file sizes resulted:

 

JPG 3,474

BMP 76,209

EMF 48,836

(VC2) 47,845

There are no other options in VCF for export output file type.

 

What to do? Help,

Mike Talbot

 

I said

You may do better to output to an appropriate PDF psuedo printer.

 

You don't seem to understand what this means, so let me explain...

 

There are packages that act like printer drivers but don't actually print anything, they convert the printable stream to another format and save that as a file. cutePDF (no plug intended) is an example of a pseudo-printer driver that will convert the printing stream to PDF format. There are many of these available for free download for home use. There are others that will output to another format like TIFF.

 

In the PDF case, they all have page size options. In VCF File > Page Setup, select that PDF driver as the printer, and open its properties. You will need to select PostScript Custom Page size and set the size to fit your chart (if possible).

 

Now look at it in VCF; File > Print Preview to see what has got onto the page, and iterate until you get the dimensions right (Tools > Diagram > Diagram Measurements will give you some guidance but margins sometimes come into play.

 

 

I hope that this helps.

[Mike Talbot 0]

MIKE,

 

Thanks for the great ideas. I tried them step by step and -- sadly -- the system still crashed.

 

Reducing the link distances, box borders, etc to minimums did not substantially reduce the horizontal dimension of the chart. (It did cut the vertical by a little less than 50 per cent.

 

Also, jpg size on export reduced minimally -- from about 299 MB to 288 MB. (I suspect we're still over VCF's maximums with that.)

 

As far as cloudiness of the image posted online, I suspect some of that is in the conversion process to JPG... and some may be in the AOL browser.

 

So the questions remains -- how to display on the web the huge expanse of this family? The limitation seems to be in VCF's lack of controls on its export features. I mean, it'll send a high-res file to the printing company... but won't allow export to relatively high-end standard graphics software.

 

skolnick

Have you tried generating a BMP export of your huge chart? A BMP of your big file would take hours to upload with even a high speed connection, assuming that you had a program that would do so.

 

 

If all else fails, there are several commonly available programs that translate BMP to other file formats. Of course, if VCF freezes on exporting your chart to BMP, this message is moot.

 

Translation of BMP files to other file format experiments:

 

TIFF format files were larger than the source BMP file, so thus are unusable.

 

GIF files were only slightly larger than the same image in JPG, worth looking into.

 

PNG file sizes were about midway between JPG and BMP, so seem impractical.

 

I have no programs that can do anything but display or print a PDF file, so no comment. The PDF files that I have seem large per content. There are many other possibilities to which I don’t have access.

 

Good luck,

 

Mike Talbot