MPL - Master Place List - same place, different name

[Michael Vance Baker 0]

My wish list for the Master Place List - maybe for version 7.0

 

How to handle places that have changed names.

 

An Id number is used to identify many item's in TMG

e.g. Individual Id, Source Id, and Repositories

 

My idea would allow multiple names for the same location.

Assign each "Place Name" an id number the same way an individual has their own id number.

 

The street address (Detail), city, county, state, zip, LatLong could all remain the same.

 

The [Addressee] would become a variable. A date field could be added to show when the new name became effective. Merging places could be accomplished using the "Merge Two People" method.

 

Example of a place with 3 names.

Place id #1

Louise Obici Memorial Hospital date = 1949

Obici Hospital date = 1978

Sentara Obici date = 2005

 

Each {Addressee name} could have its own date range, however the LatLong is fixed location.

 

 

Upon pressing F2, search by place number or name.

 

==============

Another thought about MPL

 

I am very interested in using the map features built-in to TMG

Here is a URL http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?lat=36.1842&lon=-76.4722

of Cedarwood Cemetery in Hertford, Perquimans County, North Carolina the URL is what Topozone displays with LatLong 361103N0762820W from TMG

 

I would like to be able to export all of my Master Places to Google-Earth as one map.

 

If not Google Earth, there are also services from

Windows Virtual Earth

http://local.live.com/?v=2&sp=aN.36.874410...%20Place%20List

 

and we all know Frappr - http://www.frappr.com/

 

 

 

Thanks,

Michael B

[Morbius 0]

I'll just deal with the first question about places in time.

 

Your proposed scheme seems to be a bit complicated, given that a specific event can only happen at one location in time and space - that is one time and one place - even if the place changes names. I say this because I think it important to keep events in their historical perspective. Something not done very much, or so it seems to be.

 

For example, a person born in Hawaii in 1895 was actually born in the Kingdom of Hawaii (not the state, Hawaii); someone born there in 1910 would have been born in the Territory of Hawaii, and someone born there in 1960 would have been born in the State of Hawaii. All three events occured in the same location, which over time had three different names. In no instance would the person have been born in the Kingdom of Hawaii AND the State of Hawaii. These two events are mutually exclusive.

 

You could develop some sort of software scheme to track all this, but when you consider 50 states, dozens of territories, hundreds of counties, and maybe through in Europe with its kingdoms, nations, nation-states, dukedoms, etc, it could quickly turn into a nightmare.

 

An alternate proposal - use the name that is correct for that time [thus keeping the event in its historical persepctive] followed by brackets which list the current name; eg. "born 1895 in the Kingdom of Hawaii [now the state of Hawaii]. Now the reader will know what was and what is, and gain a better appreciation for the history of the person being recorded The detail for the tag may get a bit long, but it would me relatively easy to manage, If more detail were needed, you could follow that tag (a birth tag in this case) with another giving a more fuller expalantion of the place name changes. That would give you the flexibility of including the additional information, or not.

 

This does require some research in the historical names of places, but you appear to already be doing that, and are just looking for a way to record your research. A simpler way might be better, and would be easier for your descendants to figure out.

[Viper2004 0]

Hello!

 

I've been dealing with the same thoughts about placenames.

My solution for this is writing todays placenames in the placefields (so they can be easily found TODAY) and putting the original placenames as quotations in the annotations.

To stay with the Hawaii example i would put "Kingdom of Hawaii" or Then: "Kingdom of Hawaii" in the notes.

 

I have also been asking for a tool to export to Google Earth ...with not a single reply. Still i think this might be THE killer-application since GE has become a sort of must-have-software.

 

- Phil

[Roy_Delos_Reyes 0]

"and maybe through in Europe with its kingdoms, nations, nation-states, dukedoms, etc, it could quickly turn into a nightmare."

 

Just tracking the Saxon Duchies alone is a nightmare- let alone the rest of Europe!

[efcharvet 0]

Yes, this issue drives me crazy, as well. I generally handle this situation the same way as Viper2004, but I take the Morbius approach on some individuals.

 

I dislike having to separately set-up - to use Morbius' example - Kingdom of Hawaii, Territory of Hawaii, and State of Hawaii, all to identify the same place. Although the narrative reports are correct, but my TMG statistical reports are useless unless I massage the figures in Excel. (My particular problems are European city name changes, "county" (département) name changes, as well as national changes: Duchy of Savoy, Kingdom of Sardinia, & France; and Lorraine region places - France and Germany.

 

A "Master Place Name" linked to multiple "Also Known As Place Names" assigned to date ranges is the solution. Perhaps a bright programming wiz can address this complex issue in the future.

 

Earl

[Morbius 0]

Some pretty interesting comments, including a few things I hadn't thought about. I don't use the statistical reports that Earl mentioned (I concern myself primarily with keeping place names in their historical context, which is easily done using the 'bracket technique' mentioned a couple of times), so that hasn't been a problem for me. Given that, and the uncountable variations of nations and states in Europe (mine tend to all be Germany, or some variation, so I haven't encounted the full effect of this problem), maybe a 'compicated scheme' that can be simplied would be better.

 

I may be showing off my ignorance here, but I am wondering, what is the adantage of being able to connect to Google Earth?

[Michael Vance Baker 0]

Thanks for the replies!!

 

Kingdom of Hawaii or any place that has changed names. Each and every locale goes through numerous name changes. Sometimes, even the street address changes. The concept behind my desire was for each geographical place to have its own id numer. With the flexibility of beginner and advanced modes.

 

Beginner - One place value

 

Advance - Place Id #1

Effective date - August 21, 1959 - Hawaii

Effective date - 1810 - Kingdom of Hawaii or Kingdom of Hawai'i

 

Whenever an event is tied to id place #1 a crosscheck could be done to verify the validty of the chosen name field.

 

Reports could be handled the by id number look-up or by field value. The only field requied to be a constant would be Lat/Long - The GPS coordinates cannot change ..... (I know earthquakes and tectonic plate movements don't count gotta keep the scientist happy too)

 

Look-up by field value would solve -- how to handle run queries by place.

Place #1 = , , ,Hawaii

Place #2 = , , Maui, Hawaii, USA

Place #3 = Ka'anapali, Maui, Hawaii, USA

 

The one problem I can't figure out is how you run a query by a place field ... when the name of the place has had a complete change.

e.g

 

Slovakia - 1993

Slovak Republic - March 1990

Slovak Socialist Republic 1969

Czechoslovakia - 1918

Austria-Hungary - 1867

 

 

The reason I like to be able to identify places is.... I run reports on the information I've gathered and entered, then I use that list to go to a court house or cemetery to find information on their spouses or children that may be lacking in my database.

I've lost spouses burial place only because I knew were the (husband or wife) were buried.

 

 

Lastly, Google Earth or local.live for having a geographical view of who or what is wheresample of Local.Live

 

 

A great tool for mapping and sharing.

 

Michael

[Pierce.Reid 0]

One place record with multiple names, each with a different date range, would not work for places that have different names at the same time. For example, religious events may use a religious place name, which may be different from that used by other religions or by the government (and maybe more than one government claims control over a particular place). It is also possible that different sources may be more or less specific about a place. A reasonable standard is to use the location name used by the document that the information came from, since that may help locate the document again.

 

A better method may be to have links between place records that refer to the same place (this prbably needs a change in the program). That might be useful when a specific area just changes its name. It becomes more complicated when an area with no agreed upon name moves from one named area to another named area. There is probably no scheme that would work for all the different ways groups of people name and rename places in various parts of the world, or even in just one country.

 

Pierce