TMG 6.09 errors

[Lammypie 0]

I have just bought TMG 6.09 after using legacy family tree.

 

I use Windows XP Home edition, although this could effect Win2000 users also, (I haven't tested it to find out)

 

 

I installed TMG using an administrator account, and selected intall for all users.

As microsoft recomends I use a 'limited user' account for everyday activites on my pc.

However there is all sorts of problems when trying to run TMG through a limited user account.

 

In TMG if I select 'file', 'preferences' then it comes up with a screen asking beginner or advanced mode, which ever one I click the program just hangs.

 

The reports do not function correctly with all sorts of errors.

 

I have already tried re-installing tmg. I am really starting to pull my hair out now,

 

any ideas how I can get this to work

 

 

Chris

Edited August 8, 2006 by Lammypie

[Terry Reigel 0]

I think the issue is that TMG writes to files in the installation folder, which is blocked when you use a non-administrator account.

 

I've never seen the issue, but I always install all applications to a different drive (which is no doubt a no-no).

 

I'd suggest you install once more, but install to a different folder than "Program Files," which is used by default.

[Lammypie 0]

I think the issue is that TMG writes to files in the installation folder, which is blocked when you use a non-administrator account.

 

I've never seen the issue, but I always install all applications to a different drive (which is no doubt a no-no).

 

I'd suggest you install once more, but install to a different folder than "Program Files," which is used by default.

 

 

Yes this works. Using an administrator account to install the whole of tmg to the limited users profile eg. c:\documents and settings\Chris\The Master Genealogist (swap Chris, for your own user name) means that TMG will work fine as a limited user.

 

You could of course choose to install it to any directory other that a system folder, however if you install it direct to the users profile then this will prevent other users of your pc from accidentally damaging, or altering the installation.

 

However as phil from tech support pointed out, if TMG encounters any errors, then it wants to save them to c:\windows\system32 directory which would not work if running as a limited user.

 

However for me this workaround seems to be doing well.

Edited August 8, 2006 by Lammypie

[Lammypie 0]

For anybody who is also interested in this topic, I have cut and pasted my converstations with TMG tech support.

 

whollygenes.com conversation:

 

Start: 8/7/2006 11:46:01 AM

End: 8/7/2006 12:38:33 PM

 

Please wait for an operator to respond.

Dorothy: Welcome. How may I help you?

Chris Scott: Hi Dorothy, I posted a problem on the TMG6 UK forum a few days ago. There seems to be a problem with THG 6 running under a 'limited user' account on Windows XP. I installed TMG using an administrator account, but need to use a limited user account for everyday use. However I get all sorts of errors. Is this a known problem?

Dorothy: what are the errors

Chris Scott: First : In TMG if I select 'file', 'preferences' then it comes up with a screen asking beginner or advanced mode, whichever one I click the program just hangs.

 

Chris Scott: ............

Dorothy: did you uninstall the admin user before install the one user Chris Scott: I got round this by changing my user account to have administrator privileges, selected beginner, then it worked. I then changed my user account back to 'limited user' privileges, and it seemed to go ok.

Chris Scott: erm, no, as TMG will not install on a limited user account.

So I installed on the administrator account, and selected 'install for all users' when the setup program prompts.

Chris Scott: the 2nd problem I have is that the reports will not work on the limited user account

Dorothy: what error message do you get with the reports Chris Scott: in a compressed pedigree report "Variable 'BYGENNUM' is not found. 0 R_PEDC" followed by "Variable 'SUBJTEXT' is not found. 0 R_PEDC"

followed by "Variable 'TRUNCIT' is not found. 0 R_PEDC" then it seems to cycle those error messages. I get similar messages with other reports.

Dorothy: then in admin mode you do not get these errors Chris Scott: that’s correct, I don't get these errors in an administrator account

Dorothy: the install was only for the one user?

Chris Scott: I selected the 'install for all users' option in the setup file.

Dorothy: If you only want the one user , to use TMG , then you select the one user Chris Scott: ok I think we are misunderstanding each other The problem is running this without administrator privileges, as microsoft recommends for security reasons. I only use a limited user account for everyday use, particularly when using the internet. it stops nasties, from spreading to the rest of my computer, and getting access to system areas. I cannot install TMG on a limited user account, which is normal. So I logged on as the administrator to install the software. I do not want to use TMG with the administrator account, but my own user account. so I selected 'install for all users' it installed then I logged off the administrator account, and logged back on with my user account, but TMG does not function correctly. For testing only, I have changed by user account to give it administrator rights, and it seems to work ok. This is not acceptable for daily use, however, as I surf the internet to assist with my genealogy research, and using an administrator account to do this is against security recommendations by Microsoft

Dorothy: checking

Dorothy: you will need to uninstall TMG for the "all user" account

Dorothy: then you need to log on as the special user and install TMG Chris Scott: ok. I'm not sure I understand. I'll completely uninstall TMG.

Dorothy: through the control panel add/remove

Dorothy: make sure you have backups of your project Chris Scott: yes, but I don't see how that will help. I'll uninstall.

Change my user account temporarily to have administrator rights, install TMG on to that user account, select 'for this user only' , but then I'll change the user rights from administrator to limited. Surely the same problem will still exist?!

Dorothy: you don't change your account to have admin rights Chris Scott: sorry about this. So TMG should install on the user account without administrator rights?

Dorothy: yes it should

Chris Scott: ok, thanks. I thought I tried that initially. I'll go and do that now. Thanks for your help.

Chris Scott ended chat

 

Thank you for contacting us.

 

 

whollygenes.com conversation:

 

Start: 8/7/2006 1:21:20 PM

End: 8/7/2006 1:41:03 PM

 

Please wait for an operator to respond.

Dorothy: Welcome. How may I help you?

Chris Scott: Hi Dorothy, I chatted with you earlier about the problems I was having using TMG 6 in a limited user account in Windows XP. As you suggested I uninstalled TMG, then tried to install TMG directly from the limited user account. As I thought this does not work, as the account does not have enough user rights to install the software.

Dorothy: sending you to the resident expert on multi user account Your call is being transferred to a new operator.

Phil: Welcome. How may I help you?

Phil: Hi Chris,

Phil: That may be the problem you have in trying to print from the limited account when TMG is installed in your admin account. You don't have enough rights in the limited account to access/create the files necessary to print the reports.

Phil: I don't know this for sure tho. Just guessing.

Chris Scott: yeah that sounds about right. There have been other problems also.

Phil: With other programs?

Phil: Can you change the rights level on the limited account?

Chris Scott: no, other programs work fine in limited user accounts, they just need to be installed by an admin user. This is standard. However with tmg, there are all sorts of problems using a limited user account, which go away if I change the rights to an administrator account.

Chris Scott: yes that is the easiest solution however, I do not want to do this, for security reasons. I surf the internet alot doing my research, and I do not want nasties spreading to other areas of the computer which they could do I f I surfed with an admin account. Microsoft themselves recommend not to use admin accounts for everyday computer usage.

Chris Scott: I take it there is no solution to this problem at present?

Phil: I'm not at all familiar with accounts and rights. I don't know exactly TMG does that would require the admin rights. The underlying program to TMG is MS Visual FoxPro. You might ask Microsoft what their solution is.

Phil: The solution doesn't rest with TMG but your configuration and environment.

Phil: I personally use Norton Firewall and other than a few tracking cookies I haven't had a problem with 'nasties'. I run a bot check once a week using Search and Destroy and that keeps things in check.

Chris Scott: Hmm, I seem to know a little more than you I think. The problem is that TMG needs to write to system areas of the computer during use. Microsoft will simply say that your software is not designed to WindowsXP logo standards. The problem is that other programs which are fully winxp compatible, will create a directory in program files directory only for the base files, and create a directory structure in the individuals user folder 'c:\documentsandsettings\Chris\......'

Chris Scott: I'm going to try installing TMG on the admin account, but changing the install directory from the program files directory which is a system folder to one which isn't. This should work in theory but isn't very tidy. It won't work if the same rights problem applies to registry entries. I'll let you know tomorrow,

Phil: But as I said we use MS Visual FoxPro. All we do is write programs that use that programs capabilities. If that's not XP Logo compatible then MS has the problem not us.

Phil: OK.

Chris Scott: ok thanks Phil

Chris Scott ended chat

 

whollygenes.com conversation:

 

Start: 8/8/2006 11:27:25 AM

End: 8/8/2006 11:58:41 AM

 

Please wait for an operator to respond.

Phil: Welcome. How may I help you?

Chris Scott: Hi Phil, I was talking to you yesterday about running TMG in a limited user account

Phil: I remember.

Chris Scott: I was wondering, what version of microsoft visual fox pro are you using?

Phil: V6 or 7 I think. Let me check.

Phil: V7

Phil: Any thing else I can help you with?

Chris Scott: ok, just for your info V7 wasn't written directly with WinXP in mind, however it was for win2000 which XP is backward compatible with.

The current release is V9 Sp1, which obviously thoroughly supports winxp, Microsoft are working on the next version which will be guaranteed to work with microsoft vista, which is due for release early next year. I have found a work around for my problems, and can also go some way to help you fix this problem for future releases should you wish.

Chris Scott: I have got around it by...

Chris Scott: Using an administrator account, (normal for program

installations) to install TMG, however I change the install directory from the default, to the user directory of the user which is going to use the software, so on my system from c:\program files\The Master Genealogist to c:\documents and settings\Chris\The Master Genealogist\ Chris Scott: This means that the software is installed in a non system directory to which the limited user in my case 'Chris' has unrestricted access too, thereby getting around the problems caused by it being installed in program files.

Chris Scott: I then have to reboot and input the serial number, still as an administrator, but then I can load up the tmg as the limited user 'Chris' and it will work fine, with no errors.

Chris Scott: Are you with me?

Phil: OK. But there is still a potential problem area. If the limited account prohibits writing to 'system' areas the problem area would be the fact that error logs are written to the Windows\System32 directory.

Phil: I see what you did. I'll file it away for the future.

Chris Scott: are ok, I haven't experienced that yet. Ok so I can't fix that with my method, but for normal use with no errors, it will work ok.

The downside is that the whole program is stored in a user profile, which is far from ideal, however it does have the advantage that a pc with multiple users (ie in a flat share, which is very common where I live) can use several installations of TMG independently on the same PC, whereas at the mo, it is difficult, as if one user changes some program settings, they would adjust the program for other users. To fix this.....

Phil: TMG uses 2 different files to store options settings. The one that holds the Program Option settings is the app.ini in the main TMG folder.

The project options are contained in the Projectname__.PJC file.

Generally once the Program options are set they are rarely changed.

Chris Scott: you would need to change how TMG stores its data, and settings... for example, the main program itself minus and configuration files etc should be stored as it is presently using the path variable "

%ProgramFiles%\The Master Genealogist " but any configuration files (storing program settings and error logs etc) should live in "

%UserProfile%\Local Settings " and project data, such as exhibits, reports etc should be in " %UserProfile%\MyDocuments\The Master Genealogist Data " or something similar. This means that all my projects and error logs, configuration files etc, would be specific to me and would be stored in my user account 'Chris' fine regardless of what privileges were allocated to my account, also another user ie a flat mate using a different user account would not interfere at all with my installation

Phil: So you don't have a lot of conflict between users over settings.

Each one can save their own preferred layout.

Chris Scott: That’s right, a) it solves the user privileges problem, and

b ) It actually increases the usability of your program by allowing other users to work side by side

Phil: Ok I see where this is going. I'll pass this on to the programmers to consider for a future update. Part of the problem is with our large number of legacy users.

Phil: We've got thousands of users still running Win 98SE, ME, Win2000 and a few still with Win 95. Many are elderly and either don't want to go thru the learning curve again for a newer version of the operating system or can't afford to upgrade their hardware. But until such time as that legacy base declines appreciably we can't make drastic changes that would further complicate any program upgrades they might consider.

Phil: That's one of the reasons we're still using VFP V7. Win 98s don't play well with V8.

Chris Scott: hmm, yeah this could also be solved very easily, as part of the upgrade to a future version, a simple script which could be written within a few minutes, could copy all of the files to the correct locations upon installation of the update, so it would be seamless, alternatively also simply it could be set in accordance with the type of

Operating system installed, so winXP users would use the new way, but

Legacy users would still use the traditional way. This can be easily programmed within minutes Chris Scott: by detecting the %OS% variable.

Chris Scott: This could be done with VFP7 with no problems.

Phil: I'll have to take your word for that. I understand programming just enough to make me dangerous to myself and others.

Chris Scott: yeah, well I hope I've helped, should other users contact you with the same problem, Chris Scott:

Phil: I will certainly pass this info on to the guys that do understand it tho. This is good info.

Phil: Thanks

Chris Scott: no problem, if you need any clarification then don't hesitate to contact me, in the mean time, I'm going to carry on using it my way, and hope for the best with the error logs. Thanks for your help Chris Scott ended chat

 

Thank you for contacting us.

[laura1814 0]

Ouch. FWIW, I had this problem myself once when I borrowed someone else's notebook computer to take on a research trip (before I had my own). Fortunately I was able to convince them to make me an administrator!

 

I have a software firewall and a router so I don't worry much about "nasties" and run in admin mode all the time. But I don't share the computer with others and I use non-MS programs (e.g., browser, email) whenever possible to lower the possibility of becoming victim to an MS-targeted nasty.

 

But I've been wondering for quite some time why WG didn't put the project files in the documents and settings folder. That would seem to fix most of the problem. Chris, I wonder if you could install TMG as an admin, then go into preferences and change where the project files default to? Theoretically you don't even need to change the default to put them somewhere else. Would that work? (except for app.ini and the error log-- obviously you still wouldn't be able to write to them as long as TMG resided in the protected system structure.)

Edited August 9, 2006 by laura1814