Jump to content
kaye

Journal report. Witness/history tag

Recommended Posts

Hi

Made the leap to Gold V7 from Gold V4

In version Gold 4 history was added under the witness tag. On conversion shows in journal as "he witnessed the history of an unknown person". Can this be easily fixed please?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kaye,

 

Welcome to Version 7! I remember switching from Version 4 to 5, and while there are many significant differences from Version 4, I feel sure you will find the many added capabilities and features of Version 7 well worth the switch.

 

As to your "unknown person" text. Virginia is correct that sureties are a common way for this to occur. However, in the switch from Version 4 there is another possible way. Can you look at the Details of the person who is this Witness, find this specific tag, and answer some questions? You may have to go into Preferences / Program Options / Tag Box and check the "Show witnessed events" option so that this tag displays in the Witness' Details.

 

Now, open the tag. Are there places for people to be assigned as Principal? If so and there is a person assigned as a Principal, was that person excluded from your journal report (e.g. they are marked Living and you excluded living people?).

 

At the top left of the Tag Entry screen there is a button "Tag type". What tag name is printed to the right of that button?

 

Click that button. On the right of this Tag Type List popup window there is a field called "Tag Group". Does this say "History" or "Other"?

 

Version 7 true History tags should not have Principals, so the sentence you quoted does not make sense for a tag that is actually in the History group. It sounds like you had a custom tag from Version 4 that you called History that has been converted to a tag by that name in the "Other" group. This can get confusing, but we will try to help.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Michael

Thank you very much for your help. Yes it was a shock to see the different format. I have completed my research so haven't actually used the programme yet. I am just checking to see what my reports ere like as this was the object of changing.

 

I couldn't follow all of your instructions. I found preferences and tag type and "show witnesses" was checked but couldn't follow from there. I couldnt seee a button. <Click that button. On the right of this Tag Type List popup window there is a field called "Tag Group". Does this say "History" or "Other"?> I cant do a screen print to show you.

 

However I went back to my principle and right clicked on witness and got what I think you mean. It did show the tag type is History. In fact I have used this troughout my data. I have a large data base of 5,000 people.

[P] <was|and [PO] were> History <[D]> <[L]>

 

I always used the menu field for all events as could never cope with the sentence structure. I hated the V4 manual, it was usless with no screen prints and we were all new to it I didn't have time or patience. I always intended to print to file an manipulae the data from Word as all my reseach I kept seperate. I only used for war history, residence etc and later, more recently for small facts. I wanted to write in my own style and conrol my referenceing, albeit I did always use citations for non historical events. This is the sort of writing I am used to and are better at. I inteneded to use journal style for principle and 2 generations only. Then descendency charts from there on. Possibly at the back of my book. However the program does look interesting and may change my mind.

 

Just thought I would mention this if this transfer of data becomes a problem. I dont want to waste anyones time. As long as memos are shown and spouse events.

 

kind regards, and many thanks for your time. I hope this has a simple fix. If not it is not the end of the world.

Kaye

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you Virginia,

Yes I had both those boxes checked. As you can see Micharl is taking me through it. Thank you for your time once again. Can't do those useful screen prints you do

Do I have to transfer to word first?

Regards

kaye

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kaye -

 

It looks like Michael has you on the right track.

 

The screenshots and videos I use are made with a free program called Jing from jingproject.com. Once you make the screenshot, you can annotate it if you wish and post it on a free online account with a link for others to view it. The program is available for both Windows and Mac.

 

Virginia

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh well. Too complicated. I have only just learned that you can enlarge them. I now use them a lot.

Thanks Virginia.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Kaye,

 

Yep, after Version 4 the different format of Version 7 will be a shock, but that is only because there is so much more to display.

 

Since you have "Show witnessed events" option checked, I deleted the extra (probably confusing) stuff from my instructions. Still need some answers so we can understand enough to help you out.

 

Can you look at the Details of the person who is this Witness. Not the Principal, but the person that is the "he" for the sentence "he witnessed the history of an unknown person". Now find this specific history tag among the many tags for "he", and answer some questions about that tag.

 

Open this specific history tag which will produce a pop-up window labeled "Tag Entry". Are there places for people to be assigned as Principal? (I am guessing the answer will be "yes".)

 

At the top left of the Tag Entry screen there is a button "Tag type". What tag name is printed to the right of that button? (Based on your previous reply I suspect your answer will be "History".)

 

Click that "Tag Type" button. A new pop-up window will display labeled "Tag Type List". In that window there is a field called "Tag Group". Does this say "History" or "Other"? (I suspect it will say "Other" which would be the source of some confusion.)

 

However I went back to my principle and right clicked on witness and got what I think you mean. It did show the tag type is History. In fact I have used this troughout my data. I have a large data base of 5,000 people.

[P] History

 

I always used the menu field for all events as could never cope with the sentence structure.

Too bad I can't just look over your shoulder and see your screen. I have forgotten so much about what Version 4 used to look like that I may ask you dumb questions, but I got out my old Version 4 manual and verified that the standard History tag in Version 4 did exist and did not have Principals, so am even more confused by the sentence output you quoted. Hence my desire for you to answer the above questions.

 

By the way, do you still have your Version 4 available? If so I may ask some questions later about what you see in Version 4 for your tag.

 

I always intended to print to file and manipulate the data from Word as all my reseach I kept seperate. I only used for war history, residence etc and later, more recently for small facts. I wanted to write in my own style and conrol my referenceing, albeit I did always use citations for non historical events. This is the sort of writing I am used to and are better at. I inteneded to use journal style for principle and 2 generations only. Then descendency charts from there on. Possibly at the back of my book. However the program does look interesting and may change my mind.

 

Just thought I would mention this if this transfer of data becomes a problem. I dont want to waste anyones time. As long as memos are shown and spouse events.

Not a waste of time, and happy to try to help. I am certain we will get the output you desire, but need to understand exactly what you have to guide you to the correct options and settings. While we should be able to find a way to get you output from your current data, it is clear you are not taking advantage of many of the capabilities of TMG that would make it easier to create output closer to the way you want and minimize post processing in a word processor. Have patience with us and I feel sure the results will be worth it.

 

kind regards, and many thanks for your time. I hope this has a simple fix. If not it is not the end of the world.

Kaye

Once we can get a better understanding of what your data and tags look like I feel sure one of us users will have a simple fix. It may be as simple as re-importing your Version 4 file with some different options.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Michael

I didn't see this post when i asked if you are pursuing it in another post.

 

I will get back to you tomorrow on this as want to get it right

kind regards' kaye

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Michael

thank you once again.

V7

Can you look at the Details of the person who is this Witness. Not the Principal, but the person that is the "he" for the sentence "he witnessed the history of an unknown person".

 

No, because there was not sentence structure in this field in V4. So I have gone back to version 4 to show how this was written up.

 

I always wanted to use just history. Witness was a defaut as you can see. To get the tag type I went down to tag menu and found history. All ok as tag type comes up as history, But in the sentece structure box is blank (no predetermined sentence structure) and gives room for a lot of data. However once it is closed it shows up as a witness event and then has "history: The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog" in the data, In the reports the tag witness doesn't show up. It is a default but serves no purpose from what I can see.

 

Version 7

 

Now when I follow your instructions double click on witness I get the tag type list and none of the principle stuff. On the left it has what is a sentence structure for history. In left it is history < H) I cant do it as not on keyboard but in brackets there is an upside down symbol < <H. In the memo field is my history data in ordinary sentence format.

 

When go into tag type list I get up a screen. This is interesting as it contains all the data and some options such as edit, add, delete copy and translate. I wish I could send it to you.

 

The filter is "history" and this is not active (not enabled) There is room for two types of sentence, witness and sentence. But both relate to a witness. It is set as default. Now I am gettting ahead of you at the moment because there is a tag called 'other' that should allow me to manipulate the data so that it is a history event and has abrevation in my data fied <w> that still makes it a witness tag. It should work and does change the tag type but doesnt take away sentence witness. Rather they are witnessing an historical event which is not what I want.

Now I get "he witnessed the history of an unknown person"

 

In this tag fiield I have a lot of options in edit for example shows it is a history tag. And although not mentioned at all in set up witness, it still comes into reports.

 

I hope this has been helpful.and yes it would be great if you could look over my shoulder or I can do a screen shot, but asked Virginia (above) and you need special software.

 

It would appear to me that I may be able to change one person but not the whole data. maybe in the lower version it converted ok and because I have skipped it may be "unfixable."

 

Just to clarify no in the tag group I can see history and in most of the windows I look in.

 

Kind egards

Kaye

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hello Michael

Thank you once again.

Happy to try to help, Kaye,

 

Sorry to take a while to respond, but I am just a TMG user like yourself, who has volunteered to help, like most who post on this forum. While I have extra time since I am an old retired guy, I do like to spend some of that time on occasion with the lovely lady who has put up with me all these years! :D

 

Can you look at the Details of the person who is this Witness. Not the Principal, but the person that is the "he" that produced the Journal report sentence "he witnessed the history of an unknown person".
No, because there was not sentence structure in this field in V4.

Kaye, I am trying to respond to your original question where you had output from a Version 7 Journal report. So I need to know how things look for that "he" person in Version 7 that produces that report, not how things used to look in Version 4. You answered some of that below, but I have still more questions.

 

So I have gone back to version 4 to show how this was written up. I always wanted to use just history. Witness was a defaut as you can see. To get the tag type I went down to tag menu and found history. All ok as tag type comes up as history, But in the sentece structure box is blank (no predetermined sentence structure) and gives room for a lot of data. However once it is closed it shows up as a witness event and then has "history: The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog" in the data, In the reports the tag witness doesn't show up. It is a default but serves no purpose from what I can see.

Ahhh!! I think I am beginning to understand. It appears that you had a complete misunderstanding about the meaning and use of the Version 4 History tag. And since the Version 7 History tag is the same as the Version 4, I think you are still misunderstanding and that is the primary source of the difficulties. :sad: Terry's Data Entry: Tutorial webpage I mentioned in a reply to another of your posts states "This concludes the review of the three main types of tags. We've left out some more obscure types, such as History tags, which are not generally used by beginners." In fact, Terry does not even discuss History tags in his Primer. (Page 4: "History Tags are special-purpose Tags for recording events in which a large number of people are involved and are not covered further in this guide.") That is because these tags are very different from all other TMG tags. Using them properly requires understanding what TMG means by a Witness versus a Principal, and that is an advanced concept. Paraphrasing from the TMG Help topic "Data Entry: History" but adding some emphasis: A history tag differs from a regular event tag in that there are no principals. This Tag Type is designed for events of a global, rather than personal, nature, usually involving large numbers of people rather than just one or two. A person can only be a Witness on a History tag, and the tag is displayed on the Person View of every individual who is linked as a Witness to this History tag. History type tags are the only TMG tags that work this way. In TMG people are always linked to tags, usually as a Principal but in Advanced Mode can be linked as a Witness. As the TMG Help topic "Witness" states: "A witness is a person who is associated with a given event, even though he/she may not be one of the principals. Witnesses to events can be entered in Advanced Mode only." Linking a person to a tag as a TMG Witness does not imply they "saw" or "witnessed" the event, only that they have some non-principal relationship to that event, and you wish to link them to this event.

 

In Version 4 (and in Version 7), when you add a new History tag, TMG will automatically link the current focus person as a Witness to this tag, expecting this person to be the first of many people you will link as Witnesses to this single History tag. There is no Sentence option on a History main Tag Entry screen because there is no single Principal expected to have a sentence for this tag, everyone is a Witness.

 

I think what you really wanted to use all along was the general purpose Anecdote tag, which expects to be linked to a Principal, and which by default has no sentence structure but simply prints out the Memo. This tag is designed to record an historical anecdote principally associated with one or two people, with all text just put in the memo.

 

What I still don't understand (but am beginning to get strong suspicions), is what the TMG import process has done about your Version 4 History tags, and what is causing the sentence "he witnessed the history of an unknown person" in your Version 7 Journal report. I still need the answers to what you are seeing in Version 7 before I can make suggestions. The "fix" may still be simple, but I don't yet understand enough.

 

Now when I follow your instructions double click on witness I get the tag type list and none of the principle stuff... In the memo field is my history data in ordinary sentence format... In left it is history

Just to be sure, you are in Version 7 and are viewing the person that is the "he" that produces the Journal sentence? If you are seeing the word "Witness" in the Details window under the column with the heading "Type", then you are using Advanced data entry mode, which is necessary, good. And above the labels "Date:" and "Sort date:" is just the button labeled "Tag Type" with no intervening pair of fields with the word "Principal" in them?

 

On the left it has what is a sentence structure for history.

Hmmm... I don't see any sentence structure on this window that has the title "Tag Entry" at the top. Where are you looking? and can you be much more detailed when you describe what you see and where?

 

When go into tag type list I get up a screen. This is interesting as it contains all the data and some options such as edit, add, delete copy and translate. I wish I could send it to you. The filter is "history" and this is not active (not enabled) There is room for two types of sentence, witness and sentence. But both relate to a witness. It is set as default. Now I am gettting ahead of you at the moment because there is a tag called 'other' that should allow me to manipulate the data so that it is a history event and has abrevation in my data fied that still makes it a witness tag. It should work and does change the tag type but doesnt take away sentence witness... Just to clarify no in the tag group I can see history and in most of the windows I look in.

This is important!! We are getting somewhere! :thumbsup: Your description is fine, this is exactly the screen I expect. But I am confused about your "other" comment. On this screen titled "Tag Type List" there should be a column at the left with one or more items in it. I suspect that the first item is highlighted and says "History (^H)"? Is that correct? Is this "other" a second item in the column with the name "other"? And when you say "in the tag group" do you mean in the field labeled "Tag Group:" on this window titled "Tag Type List" which popped up when you clicked the button labeled "Tag type" on the window titled "Tag Entry"? And what exactly tells you that it "does change the tag type"?

 

It should work and does change the tag type but doesnt take away sentence witness. Rather they are witnessing an historical event which is not what I want. Now I get "he witnessed the history of an unknown person"

Sorry Kaye, but I don't understand what you did and where you are getting the text you quote. This appears to be the text that you are seeing in your Journal report, so is the key to fixing your issue. Can you be more explicit? Exactly where are you seeing this "he witnessed the history of an unknown person"? What is the window title, what is the field label, where is this field on the screen, and what exact steps did you take to get to this screen, etc.? (I apologize, I know this is tedious, but very necessary since I can't see over your shoulder.)

 

In this tag fiield I have a lot of options in edit for example shows it is a history tag. And although not mentioned at all in set up witness, it still comes into reports.

What tag field? How does it show it is a history tag? not mentioned where?

 

I hope this has been helpful.and yes it would be great if you could look over my shoulder or I can do a screen shot, but asked Virginia (above) and you need special software. It would appear to me that I may be able to change one person but not the whole data. maybe in the lower version it converted ok and because I have skipped it may be "unfixable."

Yes, it would be easier if I could look over your shoulder, but have patience with me. I think we will be able to get you what you want, but your (mis)use of the Version 4 History tag may make it harder than I had hoped. :sad:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kaye, re making a screenshot -

 

You don't really need any special software to make a screenshot and save the image. It just gives you more options.

 

To make a simple screenshot in Windows:

 

1 - Press the Print Screen button (usually on the upper right of the keyboard) to take the screenshot.

 

2 - Open the Paint Program which comes with Windows (Start / Accessories / Paint) and press Ctrl-V to paste the screenshot image into the Paint program.

 

3 - When the image appears, click File / 'Save as' to give the image a name. You can then email the image to a Moderator.

 

The Print Screen button captures the whole screen of the monitor. If you want to take a screenshot of just one window, put your cursor in that particular window and press Alt-Print Screen. As before, use Ctrl-V to paste the image into Paint and save it the same way.

 

Virginia

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kaye,

 

I know you said elsewhere it would be a while before you could respond, but when you do, could you indicate the quantity in your dataset of these "History" tags that you have assigned to only one person? Just order of magnitude, 5? 50? 500? 5000? You said earlier "I have a large data base of 5,000 people" but on average how many such tags were used with each person? It could affect the suggestions offered by us users.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kaye,

 

I know you said elsewhere it would be a while before you could respond, but when you do, could you indicate the quantity in your dataset of these "History" tags that you have assigned to only one person? Just order of magnitude, 5? 50? 500? 5000? You said earlier "I have a large data base of 5,000 people" but on average how many such tags were used with each person? It could affect the suggestions offered by us users.

 

Hi Michael

 

I sent a very big reply to you but I didn't get a receipt. then when I went to reply on anothr post of yours I got the message <You have posted more than the allowed number of quoted blocks of text>

 

So now I dont know if you got it or not. I saw another post I was interested in but couldn't reply. It was about using internet explore to filter a list. Your post are not appearing in my messages.

 

I wanted to know how to do a filtered list in reverse. I have a gedcom and a family tree package that TMGW supports but only want part of the data. I got it into version 4 but couldn't merge and really dont want to merge. I am retyping all the data and with this new package it will take forever. Can I select partial data from imported files and how do I do it. What are the keywords I am looking for?

 

Regards

Kay

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kaye,

 

No I did not get that big message. Did Bryan Wetton (author of TagWiz!) contact you about converting your History tags?

 

As for selecting a portion of a dataset, that is easy. Import it directly into a separate TMG Version 7 project. Open that project and select the appropriate people one of three ways, whichever is easier to do with these people. See Terry's Tips about selecting people here:

  1. Give all the desired people a specific flag value so you can filter on that flag
  2. Create a Focus Group of the desired people and save that Focus Group so you can use it
  3. Select the desired people in the Project Explorer

Now run a List of People report filtering for the people desired using one of the methods above. In the Report Options, on the Secondary Output tab, choose to create a new separate project or dataset of just these people, whichever makes the most sense for you. And to understand the difference, see Terry's Tips here. You said that you do not want to merge, but if you later decide to merge these selected people, see Terry's Tips about merging here.

 

Hope this gives you ideas,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×