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John Moran

Embedding text in jpeg files

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Metadata entered in the Comment, Subject, etc. fields in Windows XP Explorer's internal Photo Editor is embedded in a page prepended to the JPEG, along with EXIF camera data.

 

Metadata entered in similar, but more expansive, data fields in accordance with the IPTC (Professional Photographers) template is similarly prepended to the previouslly prepended Microsoft data in the JPEG file.

 

Note: These data fields go with the JPEG, so images uploaded to the web may contain these embedded fields.

 

 

This site may be of interest:

http://www.controlledvocabulary.com/imaged....html#standards

 

And also this Breezeblower Photo Editor site may be of interest to those with high end (RAW) cameras.

http://www.breezesys.com/BreezeBrowser/help/preferences.htm

 

As to finding applications with utilities to properly search these data fields, that seems to be a work in progress, across the board.

 

Use of XP operating system for a general search can bring up unique names or keywords, perhaps, but not abbreviations. If you live in Canada (CAN), but have relatives in California (CA) and use a Canon camera you may find some searches useless.

 

As to Irfanview's implementation of the IPTC template, it is straight forward and seemingly freeform. If you open that JPEG created in Irfanview and then download a trial version of, say, ACDSee, with its fancy interface you may have a different reaction.

 

After an hour you may find yourself rushing to uninstall ACDSee, with its supposedly searchable internal Album database utility. Might as well stick with TMG for your album tagging if you can't embed data fields in the JPEGs themselves.

 

FWIW,

John M.

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John

 

I appreciate the information included in your post. I, however, understand very little of it. Could you please translate the gist of it so I can determine if I want to (or can) take advantage of the info?

Edited by rlgleason51

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John

 

I appreciate the information included in your post.  I, however, understand very little of it.  Could you please translate the gist of it so I can determine if I want to (or can) take advantage of the info?

In XP (not Win9x), goto your My Pictures Folder. Left click on any jpeg photo that you would just as soon delete anyway to select it and practice.

 

Right click on the selected photo. Choose Properties. Type away in the data fields. The entered data will be attached at the beginning of your JPEG file, and will stay there with the Camera manufacturer's EXIF data, if any.

 

Caution: modifying the jpeg file size, resolution, etc. with the MS XPExplorer photo editor/viewer *may* alter or erase EXIF camera data, according to some users.

 

If you like the idea of entering data, but don't find enough data fields for your purposes in XP Explorer, consider downloading Irfanview Photo Viewer to use its additional freeform JPEG Comment field and also the IPTC template data fields.

 

Searching for unique Keywords can be done with any Windows Operating System File Tree Search function thereafter, but data fields cannot be viewed, in, say, Win 98. (Unless the JPEG is opened in a copy MS Picture It!10, a copy of MS Digital Suite, or some txt editor, which may or may not be deemed third party).

 

Clear as mud?

Good luck,

John

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Thanks - I can see how useful this would be. I'm tired of having to make my file names descriptive and dislike typing info on the image via photo editing. I do have a couple of questions.

 

1. If I understand, the text is not displayed when viewed through TMG, or a slide show created with other photo editing software, correct? (I have XP).

 

2. This will work even if the image is scanned instead taken with a digicam?

 

Thanks

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Thanks  - I can see how useful this would be.  I'm tired of having to make my file names descriptive and dislike typing info on the image via photo editing.  I do have a couple of questions.

 

1.  If I understand, the text is not displayed when viewed through TMG, or a slide show created with other photo editing software, correct? (I have XP).

 

2.  This will work even if the image is scanned instead taken with a digicam?

 

Thanks

 

1. I don't believe TMG accesses the information. Some (maybe even most) photo editing software will read the information created in another program.

 

2. This works for any image whether taken with a digicam, scanned or downloaded from the internet. In fact, the properties tab is available for almost every file type from Windows Explorer or My Computer. Windows doesn't allow as wide a variety of property categories to be entered, but does allow basic information (title, author, description, keywords) to be entered for just about any file.

 

Jennifer

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1. I don't believe TMG accesses the information. Some (maybe even most) photo editing software will read the information created in another program.

 

2. This works for any image whether taken with a digicam, scanned or downloaded from the internet. In fact, the properties tab is available for almost every file type from Windows Explorer or My Computer. Windows doesn't allow as wide a variety of property categories to be entered, but does allow basic information (title, author, description, keywords) to be entered for just about any file.

 

Jennifer

1. The "properties" fields display seems to vary with the make and model of the photo editor associated with the jpeg files.

 

Some fields seem to display some of the data some of the time; depends. "Caption" and "Title" field descriptions in different viewers may contain the same embedded text.

 

My experience on my computer only may be improved by having Microsoft "Picture It" 10 installed on my computer. It looks like I can enter keywords from (pre Win XP) Ulead PhotoImpact 6 properties viewer and then, perhaps, search for them in MS Picture It! 10.

 

It's mix and match, but the Keywords field and the Caption/Title field may be common to most editor/viewer displays??

 

In any event, between the combined Keyword search capabilities of Picture It!, the XP operating system, and Adobe's PhotoShop, it seems that one could start embedding searchable data in the jpegs with some confidence of being able to do a meaningful search at a later date.

 

2. Thanks for the heads up. It did not occur to me to look in other file's properties, such as doc.

 

John

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John (or anyone else interested in this subject!)

 

From searching around this forum, you seem to have several posts which address the issues that I'm currently working on. But you have done much more research on the subject, altho I think your last post about any of this was in January 2006.

 

Here's what I've been doing (and please excuse my ignorance on some of the technology):

 

- I have recently committed to use TMG

- I had been using PhotoShop Album for organizing my photos, and Microsoft Digital Image programs for generating hardcopy output

- I don't love Album, so I decided to do some research before I finish identifying all my photos

- I have been evaluating whether or not to switch to Microsoft Digital Image Suite 2006 Library (I like the interface of Library better than Album, but I miss some of Album's features; I like being able to use Library to filter the images I want to work with, and go directly to the Editor)

- then I started reading about whether or not the info about the image is attached to the image itself, and realized that this is the most important criteria for me, in selecting a photo organizer

- so I downloaded PixVue, but then I'm also reading about alternatives such as IRFANVIEW, XNVIEW and CPICTURE....

- my husband suggested using PixVue in conjunction with Album or Library (ie, enter the data via Album or Library, but know that I can see it easily in Explorer...)

- I tried entering some info via Album, to see if it would appear via PixVue; some does and some doesn't

- I tried entering some info via DIP Library, to see if it would appear via PixVue; it didn't

- I'm confused and overwhelmed and floundering around, from program to program!

 

Ideally, I want to be in TMG, attach an exhibit to an event, and have TMG know some basic info about the image - such as the date and caption/title. It seems ridiculous that I should have to reenter this info!

 

I want to use a photo organizer to enter data about my images that will x-over and be seen/recognized in other applications....

 

It seems as if you've been using almost all of the programs that I've listed above....

 

Do you have a recommendation?

 

Thank you most sincerely!

Marion in Rochester

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Earlier today I was deleting pdf and other filesand ran across an Adobe white paper titled, "Adobe XMP for Creative Professionals". (See link).

 

http://www.adobe.com/products/xmp/

 

Adobe is the biggest elephant in the graphics jungle, not Microsoft, so it is advisable to lean in that direction, as long as you don't use the freebie Album Software that they try to download along with Reader 7.

 

Each user has his/her own decision to make. TMG is already using graphical image software that is capable of embedding IPTC "keywords", etc in XML. It's just a matter of timing and inclination.

 

For those interested in experimenting with the process, don't forget that the whole idea of prepending XML in jpg files, and others, is so that the jpgs can be opened as text in various text editors to see how each application embeds the data in the search fields.

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OK. I ran a little experiment.

 

Used a test JPG.

 

1) Right-clicked on the image in WinXP. Properties.

Added the Title: AB

Added the Subject: ABC

(These are added to the image file as EXIF customized fields. EXIF is extensible.)

 

2) Opened the image in Paint Shop Pro X.

The Creator tab Image Title and Description fields are blank. Added the same data.

The EXIF Information tab shows the information added in WinXP as:

Win XP Title: AB

WinXP Subject: ABC

(PSP10 fully supports EXIF. The Creator tab info appears to be added as ICC info.)

 

3) Opened the image in Photo Shop Elements 3 and in Photo Shop CS (basically the same results in both).

The ICC profile is ignored (PSE3 says this).

However the PSP Description data appears in the 'Description Writer' field. Huh?

The EXIF information from WinXP is not shown anywhere that I could find. The EXIF support is elemental compared to PSP10.

Added the:

Document Title: AB

Description: ABC

Cleared the Description Writer field.

(The PhotoShop data is added using XMP.)

 

4) Checked the WinXP properties.

The Title data is gone. Re-added AB to the title field.

 

5) Opened in Paint Shop Pro X again.

The Creator tab Image title and Description data are gone.

Don't see the data added in PhotoShop anywhere.

 

More... Added the default EXIF image title in PSP10. Doesn't appear to show in any other program.

 

I can find the title under various fields in PhotoShop but am not clear exactly the origin of the data.

Advanced

1) PDF Properties / Subject

2) Adobe PhotoShop Properties / Caption

3) TIFF Properties / ImageDescription (alt-container) / x-default

4) XMP Core Properties / Description (alt-container) / x-default

5) Dublin Core Properties / description (alt-container) / x-default

This all appears to be coming from the PSE3/PS description field.

 

Now... Exactly what is it that TMG is supposed to do with which data? :blink:

 

EXIF can also have different 'Title' and 'Subject' fields depending on whether the defaults or extensions are being used. WinVista uses the same EXIF extensions used by WinXP and the title / caption data are shown in the Windows Explorer status bar in WinVista.

Edited by Jim Byram

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Now... Exactly what is it that TMG is supposed to do with which data? :blink:

 

EXIF can also have different 'Title' and 'Subject' fields depending on whether the defaults or extensions are being used.

Hi Jim-

From what I have seen, the best thing that TMG can do in regard to embedding metadata in image files is "nothing". There are enough incompatible attempts at that.

 

However, the FreeImage.dll software downloaded into the TMG 6.0x folder apparently has Adobe XMP and IPTC compatible metadata support, if WG should decide to use it. Reading existing keyword fields off of existing metadata might be a reasonable thing for TMG to do, even if writing is not permitted.

 

As to MS Vista, jpg, and metadata, a Google search on that subject can give you a laugh or two. Also search for the subject of MS very recently reneging on plans to inlude PDF support in Office 2007, if you want another slant on metadata and wrapper wars.

 

Perhaps there was some reason other than innate laziness that kept me from following up on Pixvue (pixvue.com), but on the surface it seems like a useful toy.

John M.

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However, the FreeImage.dll software downloaded into the TMG 6.0x folder apparently has Adobe XMP and IPTC compatible metadata support, if WG should decide to use it.

Freeimage.dll is used by VCF, I believe. Exhibits use the Leadtools library.

 

Also search for the subject of MS very recently reneging on plans to inlude PDF support in Office 2007, if you want another slant on metadata and wrapper wars.

'Reneging' is not exactly right. MS Office 2007 Beta 2 does include the PDF export. It will not be included in the shipping version but will be available for download as an Office plug-in. So all that has changed is how the feature will get to users.

 

Seems like the most useful thing to support would be the WinXP EXIF extensions since that would provide for title and caption on import and are supported by WinVista.

Edited by Jim Byram

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However, the FreeImage.dll software downloaded into the TMG 6.0x folder apparently has Adobe XMP and IPTC compatible metadata support, if WG should decide to use it. Reading existing keyword fields off of existing metadata might be a reasonable thing for TMG to do, even if writing is not permitted.

 

********************

 

What is WG?

 

Marion in Rochester

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Seems like the most useful thing to support would be the WinXP EXIF extensions since that would provide for title and caption on import and are supported by WinVista.

It is my understanding that EXIF data is created by camera makers inside the camera, may be encoded, if not encrypted, and should not be messed with by users. However, MS Vista will apparently remap some fields from some camera makers to a "standard" display format.

 

The MIcrosoft metadata fields for comments, etc., providied in the XP Explorer file editor may be of a somewhat general nature and not specific to image files. And not all image files are supported with prepended metadata, even by Adobe. "Sidecar" files are used for camera raw files, in particular, to avoid possible data corruption of original files.

 

Microsoft's own digital imaging software does not necessarily support (and expose for viewing) the same fields in the same manner in MS XP Explorer, and perhaps MS Vista Explorer.

 

However, some of the more popular freebie image viewers, such as Irfanview and Pixvue attempt to be compatible with Adobe and not necessarily Microsoft's Digital imaging software apps.

 

And then there was the shot over the bow within the last month (summer 2006) of Microsoft wanting everybody to scrap jpegs and use their new licensable image compression format.

 

Perhaps TMG has enough on its plate to ignore this issue and let its users populate the data fields with other programs if they desire.

 

But it has just become apparent to me after purchasing better digital camera with the potential for creating, in camera, multiple bracketed raw files from a single exposure that I need to come up with a little better indexing system that includes metadata search capability. And perhaps I will need to be more careful about throwing away the thumb and sidecar files, if any, in the folders as well. Have a good day.

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It is my understanding that EXIF data is created by camera makers inside the camera, may be encoded, if not encrypted, and should not be messed with by users. However, MS Vista will apparently remap some fields from some camera makers to a "standard" display format.

That's not exactly right. Most EXIF fields are read-only but some such as the default Subject field are editable. The Win XP Title and Win XP Subject fields are legal custom EXIF fields and are editable.

 

The MIcrosoft metadata fields for comments, etc., providied in the XP Explorer file editor may be of a somewhat general nature and not specific to image files.

They are legal EXIF fields but you're right in that they only apply to certain files. EXIF per se is not specific to image files either. The more exhibit filetypes supported, the better. There is no reason to limit metadata to image files.

 

From testing of the Win XP Title and Win XP Subject fields (this will not be complete)...

 

WinXP supports these fields for: DCX, EPS, JPG, PCT, PCX, PSD, TIF, TGA, WPG images.

 

WinXP does not support this data for BMP, GIF, and PNG images.

 

And title only is supported for several a/v files (MP3, WMA, WMV). Title and subject are supported for MID and

RMI.

 

Win XP does not support this data for WAV.

 

The title and subject are also supported for TXT and PDF files.

 

Note that WinVista supports the same data as WinXP. The title and subject are displayed in the Windows Explorer status bar in WinVista.

 

Now... The reason that I suggested supporting the WinXP EXIF data is that the feature is available for every WinXP user now and, in the future, for every WinVista user. Users can add a title and, in most cases, subject to most of the possible exhibit file types so that this data would automatically be added to the Topic and Caption fields when the exhibit is added to TMG.

 

Since the operating system stores this WinXP EXIF data, there will be APIs to retrieve the data.

 

According to PhotoShop CS help, XMP is supported for TIFF, JPEG, EPS and PDF files. Period.

 

Whether EXIF or XMP is used in your graphics software or photo organizing software is not the issue because of the uneven support between different programs. The issue is maximizing the benefits to TMG users.

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Now... The reason that I suggested supporting the WinXP EXIF data is that the feature is available for every WinXP user now and, in the future, for every WinVista user. Users can add a title and, in most cases, subject to most of the possible exhibit file types so that this data would automatically be added to the Topic and Caption fields when the exhibit is added to TMG.

 

Since the operating system stores this WinXP EXIF data, there will be APIs to retrieve the data.

 

According to PhotoShop CS help, XMP is supported for TIFF, JPEG, EPS and PDF files. Period.

 

Whether EXIF or XMP is used in your graphics software or photo organizing software is not the issue because of the uneven support between different programs. The issue is maximizing the benefits to TMG users.

Jim-

Describing the generic metadata properties fields supported and exposed by Win XP Explorer as "EXIF" fields creates a great deal of confusion for "the rest of us", even if technically correct.

 

Although I do not have a version of Photoshop, I have found no other application that categorizes these Microsoft fields as "EXIF". It may be that that not even Microsoft intended to describe their Title, Subject, Keywords, Comments and Author fields for jpgs as EXIF fields.

 

If we get by the semantics, your suggestion that if/when TMG decides to use any attached metadata fields as an aid to cataloging and captioning that it use the Microsoft fields does seem reasonable.

 

However, I am going to start inserting keywords, etc. into my image files ASAP, and I am going to use the fields provided by Adobe as there is now, and probably will be in the future, far more support for that template. But that does not necessarily mean I will purchase Adobe Photoshop (CS2) or Elements, because Adobe XMP template based Irfanview and Pixvue seem to work just fine for the purpose.

 

Side note. Proprietary Album databases in various photo editor apps, may be just that: Proprietary databases, similar to TMG, and not applications that embed into fields in the jpg files for later cataloging and indexing by Windows (Vista) Explorer.

 

just my $.02

John M.

Edited by John Moran

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Although I do not have a version of Photoshop, I have found no other application that categorizes these Microsoft fields as "EXIF".

Paint Shop Pro X does.

 

Side note. Proprietary Album databases in various photo editor apps, may be just that: Proprietary databases, similar to TMG, and not applications that embed into fields in the jpg files for later cataloging and indexing by Windows (Vista) Explorer.

iMatch recognizes the WinXP Author, Comments, Keywords, Subject and Title fields as EXIF data. iMatch has the most extensive support of image metadata of any program that I'm aware of (IPTC, EXIF, XMP, all variants, other metadata as well) and can display 339 different possible image metadata fields if my count was correct.

Edited by Jim Byram

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Paint Shop Pro X does.

I need to look at this with iMatch which supports EXIF extensively. It's off my system because the latest version was breaking things but will see if that has been updated and will revised this later.

I have Microsoft PictureIt!10 (and "library"). I don't see the word, EXIF. It may be that the semantics confusion I am experiencing is due to the camera makers' co-opting the name, "EXIF" for the fields they use.

 

One point of interest is that my Minolta D5 DSLR saves RAW + jpg files of the same image. Windows Explorer Properties treats the jpgs property fields as you have pointed out, by making the Category* field read only, but treats the RAW file as a DOC file and permits writing to the Windows Category field.

 

[Edit: I think I see why the category field is greyed out in MS Explorer Summary (exif) fields. The legacy IPTC (professional photographer) Category Field was limited to three (3) characters for working journalists in the days of small hard drives. Pixvue continues to clip the IPTC Category field to three characters, but Irfanview allows more. However, Pixvue will clip the input to the first three characters.]

 

[Edit2: PhotoImpact 6, a very good photo editor in the Win98 days, describes the included camera maker's properties as "Camera Information (Exif)"]

 

And then there is the difference in exposed (read only) fields for Camera exif data between Windows PictureIt!10 Photo Editor, and the companion PictureIt Library module. And so it goes :unsure:

John M.

Edited by John Moran

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Followup: It appears that Pixvue (Pixvue.com) has the current bases covered as well as any freely downloadable Indexing Utility that works within Windows XP Explorer to incorporate and append Adobe XMP metadata fields (and remapped legacy IPTC fields) to image files could at this point in time.

 

Pixvue seeks to be compatible primarily with a subset of the Adobe XMP property fields needed by individuals for entering searchable subjects, keywords, etc. But Pixvue also addresses the issue of remapping content entered in Adobe properties fields to the smaller subset of default Microsoft metadata properties fields supported by Windows XP for all documents. Pixvue, and other image editors, does this for various image files with varying degrees of support.

 

Jim has pointed out that it is preferable for TMG to access only the Microsoft fields if/when TMG is upgraded to support this feature. A reading - and re-reading - of the comprehensive Pixvue instructions after Jim "explains" things to you can be enlightening.

 

Windows Internet Explorer 7 will reportedly incorporate better support for PNG image files.

 

So, perhaps we can just start entiring our data in XMP/IPTC fields in any photo editor software that is not grossly at odds with Adobe CS and Pixvue - or in Pixvue directly - and be able to search and retrieve it at a later date.

 

If TMG decides to support the feature, so much the better.

John M.

Edited by John Moran

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iMatch recognizes the WinXP Author, Comments, Keywords, Subject and Title fields as EXIF data. iMatch has the most extensive support of image metadata of any program that I'm aware of (IPTC, EXIF, XMP, all variants, other metadata as well) and can display 339 different possible image metadata fields if my count was correct.

 

Jim -

After extensive and exhaustive research over the past several weeks, I have decided to use TMG and IMatch. I don't see any posts from you at the IMatch forum, but it appears that you are using the same combination of tools.

 

I'm still clueless how XMP factors into this, but I'm hoping that will become evident.

 

I'm also confused as I don't want to manually enter data into EXIF fields AND IPTC fields, but I think IMatch can probably run a script to handle that xfer (and it may simply not be necessary to have my data in the EXIF fields)

 

Do you have any 'words of advice' for how to best use IMatch or TMG, so that I'll be set up well for future developments?

 

For example:

- I'm planning to add many event tags to TMG (I intend to track current events for my family in more detail than I intend to research history about my ancestors); therefore, it will behoove me for the TMG Event Tags to have a similar hierarchy structure as my IMatch Categories and IPTC Keywords.

- I'm thinking it will behoove me to use the IPTC Fields for City, Sublocation and State (rather than set up IMatch Categories for that info); hopefully, someday TMG will be able to 'read' this info

 

Does that sound 'on the mark' to you?

Anything you know now that you wish you had known when you were getting started? That you can pass on?

Did you start with organizing your photos, and then TMG? Or first TMG and then photos?

For future communication/integration between the two programs?

 

Thanks in advance -

Marion

Edited by mtpaper

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Do you have any 'words of advice' for how to best use IMatch or TMG, so that I'll be set up well for future developments?

In a word... No. How you organize and store and label your exhibits is really independent of iMatch or TMG or any other program. The iMatch site has some interesting links to sites where people have discussed such schemes. As to the future, who knows what developments will occur with either program? I'm not being unhelpful. I just have no way to read the tea leaves.

 

- I'm thinking it will behoove me to use the IPTC Fields for City, Sublocation and State (rather than set up IMatch Categories for that info); hopefully, someday TMG will be able to 'read' this info

When adding an exhibit, what would TMG do with such data? While it makes sense for TMG to read standard metadata title and caption fields when adding an exhibit to fill the comparable TMG exhibit fields, it doesn't make sense to read any other metadata fields.

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LOL! You're correct. I was getting my programs and fields mixed up.

But I would love TMG to read some basic info about the image (caption, description, date....)

Thanks

Marion

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I'm still clueless how XMP factors into this, but I'm hoping that will become evident.

Welcome to the club. Remaining clueless is usually a sign that the application one is using is working.

 

For those who want to enter XMP metadata now, at no cost, become less clueless later, and be compatible with TMG "when/if" my recommendation would be Pixvue (Pixvue.com)

 

For those who wish to become less clueless now, and enter metadata later, regardless of the cost, my recommendation would be download Pixvue just to read the the Help/Instructions.

 

For those who need a quick opening viewer to go with Pixvue, at no cost, there is Irfanview.

 

But Pixvue should be used for entering the Metadata, not Irfanview, because Pixvue uses XMP fields as primary, but is backward compatible with older IPTC fields. Irfanview seems to use older (frozen) IPTC fields as primary, but does seems basically forward compatible with XMP.

 

As to entering data in Microsoft Picture It!, Microsoft Digital Suite, Adobe Album (free?), PhotoImpact, or ACDSee, or any other photo album software more than a couple of years old - that's probably not a good idea unless you are already heavily invested in the process.

 

As to ICC color profile metadata fields, if you get your pictures developed at Wal-Mart or the drug store, you can remain clueless. But there are a lot of professional photographers who understand and use color profiles, but are just now learning to cope with the XMP indexing of their files. And so it goes.

John M.

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Note that WinVista supports the same data as WinXP. The title and subject are displayed in the Windows Explorer status bar in WinVista.

 

Has the Windows Picture and Fax Viewer been updated in WinVista to show the title, subject, or any other metadata?

 

I have tried several photo album software packages over the years, and never found one that is simple enough. I want to use Windows Explorer to organize and view my images. The Windows thumbnails work well, and what I have learned is that ANY metadata (usually termed "captions") in any program is not recognized by Windows or other programs, so it is pretty much useless (and much work I have done in identification in the past has been lost). I want an image program that uses the Windows Explorer file structure (i.e., doesn't create its own organization scheme) and I want an image viewer just like WPFV with the added features of displaying metadata (with my choice of font, of course).

 

It seems absurd to me to spend a lot of money for a program that won't do exactly what I want and organizes its metadata in a proprietary way and imposes its own external file structure on top of Windows's file structure. Someone needs to enforce some standards, even if it's Microsoft. (Can't believe I just said that.)

 

I use Irfanview for image editing, and it's wonderful for that, but even it thinks it needs to create its own thumbnails for file management. Why? How does this add value or utility?

 

Every now and then I go and download a lot of shareware and freeware, looking for a simple program, and am always disappointed.

 

As for how this all interacts with TMG, well, clearly it can't, until someone imposes some metadata standards on the image editor software industry!

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