Children sentence

[Peter Tarkkonen 0]

This might be a trivial question but at least I am a bit confused here.

 

I wonder how to influence to children sentence ie. "Children of xx and yy where as follows" when person has had many names during his/hers life.

This same sentence is used both in Journal reports and in SecondSite.

 

I want names to be as they were when children was born. This happens with married names, other name varianbles and also when person legally wanted to change his/hers name during life.

 

Is the only way to change Father/Morher on Individual Details window? Today I have used primary name (=I have fixed this to birth name) in this.

Also I do not want to add NarrativeChildren tag to all these cases.

 

How have you others solved this?

 

Peter

[Terry Reigel 0]

Peter,

 

There are two ways to control what names are used for the parents in the "Children of..." statement in the Journal:

 

1. Change the primary name of the parent - not very helpful if you want different names for different sets of children, and has other serious side effects.

 

2. Use the NarrativeChildren tag - the tool designed to let you customize that statement.

 

The default setting output of TMG's Journal reports follows long-standing genealogical convention by consistently using the primary (generally birth) names of participants. But you have tools to override those defaults.

[Peter Tarkkonen 0]

Peter,

 

There are two ways to control what names are used for the parents in the "Children of..." statement in the Journal:

 

1. Change the primary name of the parent - not very helpful if you want different names for different sets of children, and has other serious side effects.

 

2. Use the NarrativeChildren tag - the tool designed to let you customize that statement.

 

The default setting output of TMG's Journal reports follows long-standing genealogical convention by consistently using the primary (generally birth) names of participants. But you have tools to override those defaults.

 

 

Terry,

 

thank you for your reply. It was very important cause now I know that there is no easy solution.

 

NarrativeChildren tag could solve it, but in my mind should only be used in exceptional cases, but not in every case. TMG internal sentence also have all different forms, place consolidations etc.

And it is extra work.

 

I am a bit supprised that one can control name variations in all other tags but not in this children sentence. Probably the most important sentence in genealogy.

 

This way even children are a bit confused cause due to Journal they are children of mother/father who they have never heard about.

I Finland people use a lot married names, combinations and it is not that uncommon for people to change their names.

If divorced, mother many times change maiden name back and might change children names aswell. What is primary name of these individuals; Birth name, childhood name, name after divorce or name after marriage. Or second marrige. Or if middle name is used as standard instead of first name.

 

There is absolutely no rule to be build.

 

TMG has absolutely the greatest possibilities to control all names of people.

 

I think this option should be highly considered to be build in future TMG versions.

 

Peter

[John Cardinal 0]

Peter,

 

The NarrativeChildren tag is not exclusively for exceptions, and it appears to suit this situation well. If the names you want to use do not fit a standard rule, then you are going to have to tell the program which name to use, and the NarrativeChildren tag lets you do that. Why request a new feature when an existing one does it already?

[Michael Hannah 0]

Peter,

 

The NarrativeChildren tag is exactly the tool created to deal with this issue. If you have a lot of pairs of people currently in your dataset, one way to add such a tag to all these people at once would be to use John Cardinal's TMG Utility to Add Events. One way I might do this would be to:

- Run a List of Events report, filtered to get the spouse pairs of interest, and output this list in CSV format

- Do appropriate global Find/Replace actions in this text file to cause it to match the format needed for Add Events in TMGU and any edits needed to set peoples names to the ones you wish to use

- Run TMGU (first in log only mode to verify everything) and add all these Narrative Children tags in one action

 

From then on all you need to remember is to add this tag for any pair where you want special names.

 

Hope this gives you ideas,

[Peter Tarkkonen 0]

Thank you all for your replies.

 

NarrativeChildren tag would technically do the job. And it is a valuable tool in some cases.

 

In one particular case family name was "Poop" and it was changed at 1920's. However, there is still people living whos mothers or fathers birth name was "Poop". Living people do not want this family name to be seen anywhere. And I understand them.

 

However, NarrativeChildren does not help with SecondSite (but John Cardinal might have something coming up later). I use both; Journal and SS.

 

From TMG users point of view I do not like to fix something with additional tag.

 

In every other sentence except Child-sentence one can adjusted individual names. Maybe there is technical reson, but in any case I do not understand why this sentence should be handled differently.

 

Also one should keep in mind that TMG cleverly change output of this internal sentence, compines places f.ex. This make reading of Journal nicer because not every sentence is looking the same. NarrativeChildren is allways the same (unless one start changing them one by one)

 

I any case TMG is the greatest product available and I love to work with it. Just would like to make it 110%.

 

Peter

[John Cardinal 0]

Peter,

 

The challenge remains that somehow the TMG user has to tell TMG which specific name tag to use. That means that there's no easy way for TMG to provide what you want without adding a tag, and that's one way to use the NarrativeChildren tag, but you object to an additional tag. How do you want to tell TMG which name to use? You will have to describe how you want this to work.

 

Perhaps you are thinking that TMG should use the name tag with the highest date (or sort date) prior to the birth of the children, but that's problematic for several reasons and I doubt it would be implemented.

[Peter Tarkkonen 0]

Peter,

 

The challenge remains that somehow the TMG user has to tell TMG which specific name tag to use. That means that there's no easy way for TMG to provide what you want without adding a tag, and that's one way to use the NarrativeChildren tag, but you object to an additional tag. How do you want to tell TMG which name to use? You will have to describe how you want this to work.

 

Perhaps you are thinking that TMG should use the name tag with the highest date (or sort date) prior to the birth of the children, but that's problematic for several reasons and I doubt it would be implemented.

 

 

John,

my tought was that when one opens f.ex Father-Bio (double click "Father") window, over there you could choose name aswell. Same way as in all tags.

Automation here would probably cause more problems than help.

Peter

[John Cardinal 0]

Peter,

 

I think that's an interesting proposal.

 

You said, "Same way as in all tags," but all tags do not accept name variations. There are three kinds of tags:

 

- names

- events

- relationships

 

Of the three, only events support name variations.