Gedcom import - prefixes and suffixes

[Keith Winters 0]

I am trying to import from a Gedcom in which some of the names have prefixes and suffixes. A typical entry in the Gedcom file is:

 

1 NAME Hedworth /WILLIAMSON/

2 NSFX 5th Bart

2 NPFX Sir

 

The TMG import wizard has an option "Read NPFX / GIVN / SURN / NSFX names". If I leave this unchecked, then the given name and surname are imported correctly, but the prefixes and suffixes are missing. On the other hand, if I check this option, the prefixes and suffixes are imported correctly, but the given name and surname are not, with the resulting person being called Sir (-) (-) 5th Bart.

 

I would appreciate any advice on what I need to do to be able to import both the names and the prefixes/suffixes.

Many thanks, Keith

[Jim Byram 0]

TMG expected to find the following in the GEDCOM...

1 NAME Hedworth /WILLIAMSON/

2 NPFX Sir

2 GIVN Hedworth

2 SURN Williamson

2 NSFX 5th Bart

 

In that case, the name would be imported correctly.

 

Basically, you have specified that the name be imported by parts and the given name and surname are missing.

 

This is an either/or situation. TMG will either import the name using the NAME tag or will import the name using the name parts (NPFX, GIVN, SURN, NSFX).

[Keith Winters 0]

Many thanks for the reply Jim. That's disappointing news as I have a lot of prefixed and suffixed entries in the GEDCOM that use the NAME tag. It is a pity that TMG can't import the hybrid form, as it is clearly able to parse the NAME tag into given and surname parts. That's life...

[John Cardinal 0]

Keith,

 

I know it won't help you, but the program that created the GEDCOM is at fault. I did not verify the rules before typing this message, but I am very confident that the GEDCOM rules say the part-by-part records should provide the full name, and not just isolated parts. Is there any way to adjust the program that created the GEDCOM to make it conform?

 

While the simple example you gave could be parsed by a program that went beyond the GEDCOM specs, importing other examples of the hybrid format (as you called it) would have to deal with ambiguous cases and it's not a good idea.

[Michael Hannah 0]

Sorry, Keith, but John is correct.

 

Whatever produced the GEDCOM did not follow what is required in that standard. The following are extracts from the GEDCOM 5.5 definition of the GEDCOM PERSONAL_NAME_STRUCTURE:

 

The <NAME_PERSONAL> value is formed in the manner the name is normally spoken, with the given name and family name (surname) separated by slashes (/).   n  NAME <NAME_PERSONAL>  {1:1}	+1 NPFX <NAME_PIECE_PREFIX>  {0:1}	+1 GIVN <NAME_PIECE_GIVEN>  {0:1}	+1 NICK <NAME_PIECE_NICKNAME>  {0:1}	+1 SPFX <NAME_PIECE_SURNAME_PREFIX>  {0:1}	+1 SURN <NAME_PIECE_SURNAME>  {0:1}	+1 NSFX <NAME_PIECE_SUFFIX>  {0:1}The NPFX, GIVN, NICK, SPFX, SURN, and NSFX tags are provided optionally for systems that cannot operate effectively with less structured information. For current future compatibility, all systems must construct their names based on the <NAME_PERSONAL> structure. Those using the optional name pieces should assume that few systems will process them, and most will not provide the name pieces.

The GEDCOM standard, including examples, makes it clear that all of the name, including the prefixes/suffixes must be in the text on the "NAME" line, simply separated into only two parts. Optionally, all of the name may also be separated into more than two parts using the set of name parts. The TMG GEDCOM Import allows you to specify which you wish to use: the single NAME line or the set of name parts. But the standard makes it clear that whichever method of name separation is used, the name must be completely specified. It is one or the other, not a combination. Thus the TMG Import is following the standard.

 

Echoing what John said, the program that created the GEDCOM is at fault. Are there any output options on that program to make it conform to the standard?

[Keith Winters 0]

Many thanks, John and Michael, for the very helpful and detailed replies. The originating program for the GEDCOM is Reunion for Mac. Unfortunately there are no output options that will trigger one or the other of the two options described in the standard. I have brought this to the attention of Leister Productions, and hopefully they will consider this issue as part of a future upgrade. In the meantime, I will just have to roll up my sleeves……

Thanks again