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#1 Lee Irons

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 09:11 PM

I find it useful that a name variation of a principal or witness can be selected in a tag entry. It would be even more useful if the name variation could be created from the tag entry window. It should be as simple as clicking on the drop down banner for the name variation in the tag entry and selecting <New>. It appears that I would have to exit the tag entry go to the principal or witness, create the name variation tag entry, and then reopen the original tag entry to select the name variation that goes with that tag entry.

Is there an easier way?

Edited by Lee Irons, 27 December 2011 - 09:22 PM.


#2 Jim Byram

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 01:22 AM

No. You cannot create a name tag from withing an event Tag Entry screen.

#3 Lee Irons

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 07:50 AM

No. You cannot create a name tag from withing an event Tag Entry screen.



Jim,

In order to reference a name variation that is used in the source citation associated with a given tag entry, it appears that I would have to exit the tag entry, go to the person details for the principal or witness to whom the name variation applies, create a name variation tag entry for the new name variation, and then reopen the original tag entry, and select the name variation that I just created for that principal or witness.

I am new to TMG. I'm just wondering if there is an easier way of doing this in the program. :)

Lee

Edited by Lee Irons, 28 December 2011 - 08:10 AM.


#4 Jim Byram

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 08:23 AM

As I said above, no.

#5 Lee Irons

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 09:48 AM

As I said above, no.


Actually, you just answered the first question, "no." You never answered the second question. I typically expect a little bit more help from moderators, especially for new users. Just let me know now if this forum is only to be used by experienced TMG users that do not try the patience of other experienced TMG users.

#6 Terry Reigel

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 10:05 AM

Lee,

What is the second question? I only see one - "Is there an easier way?" As Jim said, no, you have to create a name tag, and you cannot do that from within an event tag. What am I missing?

Being able to start that from within an event tag is an interesting idea though. You can, for example, add a new person, and in TMG 8 you add a new Role to to a Tag Type without closing the event tag.
Terry

See my Tutorials and Articles on using TMG at tmg.reigelridge.com

The Second Edition of my book, A Primer for The Master Genealogist, is still available
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#7 Michael Hannah

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 11:12 AM

You have an interesting idea, Lee, for an enhancement to the program for adding Name-Variation tags. However, as others have pointed out, the Name-Variation tag must already exist before you can use that name in an Event tag. There is (currently) no way while within the Event tag to create such a new name tag.

As for an easier way, I can think of only two other ways. Which you consider easier will depend on you.
  • First, before adding or editing the event tag to add the source citation, go to each of the people involved and add their Name-Variation tags. Now go to the Principal for the event and add that event tag or new citation. In this method as you link all the people, their name variations will already exist and you will not need to exit the event tag for each person.
  • First enter the event tag and link all the people involved. If they do not have an appropriate Name-Variation tag, just leave their name as their Primary name. After completing and exiting the event tag, go to each person who needs one and add their new Name-Variation tag. While still in that person's view, double click on the event tag and change them to use their new name tag. This method assumes that within Preferences // Program Options // Tag Box you have checked the option to Show witnessed events so that the event tag is visible in their Details.
The first method allows you to only create/edit the event tag once. The second lets you complete the event tag in advance, but requires re-editing the tag to (only) change the name used for each person. I happen to find the second method easier, you may prefer the first.

Hope this gives you ideas.

P.S. This forum is for any and all users of TMG, regardless of being new or experienced. But we are just users and ordinary people like yourself. We each have our own way of answering and desiring answers. Some users give and want to receive a quick one-word answer, believing that is the most efficient and useful. Others (like myself) tend to get long-winded with lots of explanations and alternatives. We each ask and answer based on our own personalities and preferences. And remember that none of us users are official spokes-persons for WhollyGenes.
Michael
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#8 Lee Irons

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 11:37 AM

Lee,

What is the second question? I only see one - "Is there an easier way?" As Jim said, no, you have to create a name tag, and you cannot do that from within an event tag. What am I missing?

Being able to start that from within an event tag is an interesting idea though. You can, for example, add a new person, and in TMG 8 you add a new Role to to a Tag Type without closing the event tag.


Glad you think it is an interesting idea. :)

Jim's response was literally, "No. You cannot create a name tag from withing an event Tag Entry screen." He never answered the only direct question that I asked, which was, "Is there an easier way?" I recognized that he might have missed that question, so I restated it. He then treated me like I was stupid, saying, "No, as I stated above."

Michael Hannah answered the question. Thanks Michael. :)

#9 Michael Hannah

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 11:46 AM

Michael Hannah answered the question. Thanks Michael. :)

You are most welcome, Lee. Glad you think that one of my methods might be easier for you.
Michael
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#10 Lee Irons

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Posted 31 December 2011 - 08:14 PM

It would also be helpful if there was a diferent sentence variable for the name variation selected for each principal and witness linked to a tag. It would be nice to be able to call out both the primary name and the selected name variation in a sentence. Currently, [P] brings in the name that is selected in the tag.

#11 Michael Hannah

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 10:00 AM

Hi Lee,

Hmmmm... I think that would require two sets of variables, one set for the Primary name and the other set for the Selected name for that tag. If you had not noticed, there is a "set" of variables associated with any name, e.g. [P], [PG], [PF], etc. (See the HELP topic "Variables (Event Tags)"). Also to be complete, in addition to a set equivalent to [P] there would have to be set equivalent to [P1], [P2], [PO], [W], [WO], and [R:role]. It would essentially double the complete list of name variables. Many users already find the current set of possible variables quite daunting. I am not opposed, and as just a user like yourself really have no say in whether it would be done. But I question the value based on the quantity and frequency of users wanting both types of names in the same tag, versus the price of increased complexity.

As an alternative, you can always just type in what you want in either the sentence or memo if it is not available as one of the provided variables, whether that is for the name, or date, or place or whatever. That provides total flexibility. There is no "requirement" to use the variables. They are predominantly as an aid in the Tag Type's predefined sentences to make the "typical" output simple or to save retyping what you have already entered.
Michael
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#12 Lee Irons

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 02:02 PM

I am not opposed, and as just a user like yourself really have no say in whether it would be done. But I question the value based on the quantity and frequency of users wanting both types of names in the same tag, versus the price of increased complexity.

As an alternative, you can always just type in what you want in either the sentence or memo if it is not available as one of the provided variables, whether that is for the name, or date, or place or whatever. That provides total flexibility. There is no "requirement" to use the variables. They are predominantly as an aid in the Tag Type's predefined sentences to make the "typical" output simple or to save retyping what you have already entered.


Yes, during my experiementation, I have been adding the name variation as a parsed piece of data in the memo field.

Regarding complexity, the way to solve that problem is to design tools that make sentence creation easier. The biggest problem is that the user has to either have the variables memorized or must look them up in the Help menu, with lots of luck finding the exact Help script that has the applicable information. So let's make these visible. For example, I would provide two drop down menus on the Roles and Sentences tab of the Tag Type Definition window, these two menus being titled "Variable Type" and "Variable." The Variable Type drop-down menu would allow the user to select the variables that appear in the Variable drop-down menu. Variable types in the Variable Type drop-down menu would be Principals, Parents, Witnesses, Date, Place, Age, Memo, Roles, Structure, and Format. The Variable drop-down menu would then show titles of the variables associated with the option selected in the Variable Type drop-down menu. The user would select the variable type and then select the title of the variable they need from the Variable drop-down menu. Highlighting the variable title makes it show in the Variable field, and then clicking on an "Insert" button inserts the actual variable where the cursor is positioned in the sentence field. The pronoun variables would be included in Variable drop-down menus for the Princpals, Witnesses, and Roles variable types. The Structure variable type would include variables for controlling spaces, non-breaking spaces, tabs, carriage returns, punctuation, capital letters, concatenation, indexes, embedded citations, and so on. The Format variable type would include variables for font type, font style, font size, colors, and so on. Also, since Name, Place, and external text file variables are allowed in Memo fields, I would provide drop-down menus for these in each window that has a Memo field.

Edited by Lee Irons, 01 January 2012 - 02:35 PM.


#13 beth

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 02:51 PM

Lee,

There is a right-click menu available from within both the Memo and Sentence - have you tried that?

beth

#14 Lee Irons

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 10:31 AM

Lee,

There is a right-click menu available from within both the Memo and Sentence - have you tried that?

beth


Thanks Beth! Missed this in the voluminous Help content.

Trying it out, I notice that not all of the variables are in the right-click menu. Also, some variables have symbols in them that aren't explained in the Help content. FOr example, the Role variables show up with a % in them. Is this explained somewhere in the Help content?

Edited by Lee Irons, 02 January 2012 - 10:38 AM.


#15 Terry Reigel

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 10:42 AM


There is a right-click menu available from within both the Memo and Sentence - have you tried that?


Thanks Beth! Missed this in the voluminous Help content.

Lee,

TMG, like most well-written Window apps, has plentiful right-click menus. Try them. Many things are easier to do with the right-click than by any other means.

Trying it out, I notice that not all of the variables are in the right-click menu. Also, some variables have symbols in them that aren't explained in the Help content. FOr example, the Role variables show up with a % in them. Is this explained somewhere in the Help content?

Role variables require the name of the target Role. The % represents the place where you type in the name of the Role you want the variable to address.
Terry

See my Tutorials and Articles on using TMG at tmg.reigelridge.com

The Second Edition of my book, A Primer for The Master Genealogist, is still available
. For more information see my website.




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