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5 generation ancestor chart


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#1 Mike Talbot

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 07:33 PM

This has been shown in a different fashion on this forum in the past. It bears repeating, since the five generation ancestor chart is the standard presentation in many genealogy publications and societies. It has been called a Seize Quartiers for many centuries. It was so named for the sixteen persons in the 5th generation. At some places and times, one had to submit their Seize Quartiers to be considered for many jobs and positions, both secular and religious.

TMG 5 generation ancestor charts can be quickly and easily edited with VCF to fit on U.S. letter size paper (8.5 x 11 inches). With a little practice the job can be done in less than 30 seconds.

1. Generate a standard TMG 5 gen. ancestor chart. For charts larger than the screen, you may use the View>Zoom to fit menu entry to show the entire chart. In VCF place the mouse cursor outside the lower right corner of the chart.

2. Hold down the left mouse button and drag the cursor to the upper left of the chart with the resulting dashed line rectangle overlapping the subject box (generation 1). Release the mouse button. You have group selected all the components of the 2nd through 5th generations, but not the subject.

3. Move the cursor over any selected box. Hold down the left mouse button and drag the selected components to the left until the left most component overlaps about three-quarters of the subject box. See attached example 1 for the result.

4. Group select generations 3 through 5 as per instructions 2 and 3 above. Drag the selected components to the left until the right-most component of the selected group is within the right hand cutmark of the VCF page. See attached example 2 for the result.

5. Observe that connector lines deface the boxes of the subject and his parents. Fix this by selecting each of these 3 boxes and clicking on the "Front" menu entry (a yellow square partially covering 2 gray squares).

6. Trim the chart (Tools>Diagram measurements>size to components). You now have a 5 gen. ancestor chart on letter size paper in less than 30 seconds (after practice). See attached example 3.

You may now apply your artistic talents and whims to the chart by adding photos, explanitory text, components from other charts (such as spouses, siblings), etc. You may also move components around on the chart to where they please you. See example 4.

Best wishes, enjoy VCF,

Attached Thumbnails

  • example1.jpg
  • example2.jpg
  • example3.jpg
  • example4.jpg


#2 janice

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 03:10 AM

I am glad you have redone this Mike. I have been gathering Virginia's video links and your examples together for use in the TMG Users group here and also trying to write an article for our VicGUM newsletter. New users would probably not be aware of the valuable help available on the forum. I see some of the links have been tagged.


What I also would like to point out that the "little charts"work on A4 8.3in x 11.7 in. This is the standard paper for a lot of people.

Janice Cornwell
Melbourne
Down Under

#3 Mike Talbot

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 04:11 AM

I am glad you have redone this Mike. I have been gathering Virginia's video links and your examples together for use in the TMG Users group here and also trying to write an article for our VicGUM newsletter. New users would probably not be aware of the valuable help available on the forum. I see some of the links have been tagged.


What I also would like to point out that the "little charts"work on A4 8.3in x 11.7 in. This is the standard paper for a lot of people.

Janice Cornwell
Melbourne
Down Under


Thank you for your kind words and for mentioning that the example will work for any user desired reasonable paper size.

Please add the following to my previous post at the middle of instruction 1.

For charts larger than the screen, you may use the View>Zoom to fit menu entry to show the entire chart.

Mike

#4 John Cardinal

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 06:10 AM

Please add the following to my previous post at the middle of instruction 1.

For charts larger than the screen, you may use the View>Zoom to fit menu entry to show the entire chart.

Mike,

I edited the post as you requested. Please check that it meets your approval. In the future, you can edit them yourself, I think... there should be an edit button below posts that you have added.

#5 Mike Talbot

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 12:19 PM

Please add the following to my previous post at the middle of instruction 1.

For charts larger than the screen, you may use the View>Zoom to fit menu entry to show the entire chart.

Mike,

I edited the post as you requested. Please check that it meets your approval. In the future, you can edit them yourself, I think... there should be an edit button below posts that you have added.


Thank you,
Mike

#6 Virginia Blakelock

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 04:46 PM

I am glad you have redone this Mike. I have been gathering Virginia's video links and your examples together for use in the TMG Users group here and also trying to write an article for our VicGUM newsletter. New users would probably not be aware of the valuable help available on the forum. I see some of the links have been tagged.
What I also would like to point out that the "little charts"work on A4 8.3in x 11.7 in. This is the standard paper for a lot of people.

Janice -

Sounds like quite an undertaking, Janice. There is a wealth of information and help on the forum but it is scattered about and not always easy to find. Let us know if you have any questions or if there is anything we can do to help.

Virginia
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#7 Mike Talbot

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 07:46 PM

VCF makes it possible to produce fancy 5 generation charts with siblings and their spouses. See the attached example chart. Completed, it is 8.5 x 13.5 inches.


The easiest way to do this is to make a composite chart of a standard TMG 5 generation ancestor chart and a 2 generation descendant chart. Sure, you could accomplish the same goal with a single hourglass chart, but this way is far less crowded, easier and more efficient.


Steps:

  • Edit the descendant chart to arrange the siblings and their spouses as shown in the attached example and group color them as described previously by Virginia earlier in this forum. You just group delete connector lines and move unwanted components out of the way. Note that blank lines were added in some boxes to make spouses compatible in height. Some boxes were overlapped to make the presentation more pleasing and compact. Spouses are arranged in a horizontal line of boxes.
  • Edit the ancestor chart as described in the first message in this topic. Then move groups of the ancestor boxes to make room for the siblings and spouses. The descendant chart was done first to see how much room is needed. Making room in the ancestor chart was the hardest part of the project.
  • Copy the siblings and spouses as a group from the descendant chart, paste and move them to the desired location on the ancestor chart.
  • In this example, military units were hand entered into the individual boxes and explanatory text and color legend were entered where desired.
  • Finally, two desired JPG pictures were imported, resized and moved to taste. Then, trim the chart to components.
This entire composite chart took much less than an hour to complete (you should practice on simpler chart editing and coloring projects, first).



Best wishes,

Attached Thumbnails

  • TalbotLA_Family.jpg

Edited by Mike Talbot, 31 August 2010 - 07:59 PM.


#8 Mike Talbot

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Posted 01 September 2010 - 09:14 AM

The 8.5 x 14 inches paper, five-generation chart with siblings and spouses can be reduced in size to 8.5 x 11 inches in 10 to 15 minutes of further VCF editing. Note, chart sizes are for these examples, the same techniques can be used for any standard paper sizes.

Chart size reduction is done by overlapping the siblings and spouses boxes and moving the ancestor's boxes vertically closer together in groups and individually. The two imported pictures are also individually reduced in size.

To do so, use the arrow keys to gently and accurately jog groups and single box components to the desired locations. Frequently use the View > Zoom to Fit or Zoom Normal keys, where appropriate, to see better what you are doing.

The completed 8.5 x 11 chart is attached.

Best wishes,

Attached Thumbnails

  • TalbotLA_Family11.jpg


#9 Mike Talbot

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 04:45 AM

<snip>
... you could accomplish the same goal with a single hourglass chart, but this way is far less crowded, easier and more efficient.
<snip>


Not true. This project could not be accomplished with a single hourglass chart.

You need to begin with a standard 2 generation descendant chart of the mother or father. Then, generate a standard 5 generation ancestor chart of any one of the children. The rest of the procedure is correct.

Sorry about that,

#10 Linda Reinfeld

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 06:14 PM

Hi Mike -

I like very much your 5-generation ancestor chart. And the instructions are good.
I especially liked the 'move to front' button - I've never done that before. Great tool!
However, my chart doesn't fit on one page - the 5th generation spills over to another page by 5 1/2 people.
I am sure it has something to do with font size, box size, margins, gap between boxes.
Also I have photos, and my photos only take up about 1/2 to 1/3 of the box, whereas I notice yours are the whole size of the box....
Some times my names wrap, and some of those wrapped names have a blank line 1st before the data starts.
Is there another entry in the forum where you have identified all the options?

Thanks very much for all the charts you do -

Linda Reinfeld

#11 Mike Talbot

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Posted 22 September 2010 - 03:26 AM

Hi Mike -

I like very much your 5-generation ancestor chart. And the instructions are good.
I especially liked the 'move to front' button - I've never done that before. Great tool!
However, my chart doesn't fit on one page - the 5th generation spills over to another page by 5 1/2 people.
I am sure it has something to do with font size, box size, margins, gap between boxes.
Also I have photos, and my photos only take up about 1/2 to 1/3 of the box, whereas I notice yours are the whole size of the box....
Some times my names wrap, and some of those wrapped names have a blank line 1st before the data starts.
Is there another entry in the forum where you have identified all the options?

Thanks very much for all the charts you do -

Linda Reinfeld


Yes, Virginia, Robin and I have posted recommended/example box, font, spacing (always use minimum), max. exhibit size parameters and other VCF techniques on this forum over the past couple of years.

There are max.width and max.height parameters for pictures/exhibits that you define in TMG for generating VCF charts. Whichever of these limits your picture hits first will determine the picture size in a VCF box. It seems like your pictures might be too wide for your TMG maximum width limit to produce what you want.

If all else fails, attach a copy of your problem chart to a message here. Perhaps someone can offer suggestions.

Best wishes,

#12 Virginia Blakelock

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Posted 22 September 2010 - 05:28 AM

Linda -

If you haven't already, download the file DataTypes.zip at the bottom of the message titled Data Types Option, posted on 5 Sept. This file includes two chart configuration files (*.rpt) with no data which you can practice on. See the instructions in the last paragraph of that message for where to locate the .rpt files.

Try your photos in them, making the font sizes smaller if you need to, adding images, and changing the box color to white to get closer to the look of Mike's charts. If you want to post a screenshot of your chart to help show the problems you're having, let me know and I'll insert it into your message for you.

If those .rpt files don't work on your computer, please let me know and I'll post the settings for a basic one-page chart.

Questions are very welcome. We all learn from them.

Virginia
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#13 nbradley

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 05:35 PM

Mike,

I used the basic concepts of your "1 page 5 Gen Chart" to demonstrate at our User Group Meeting (Pert, West Aust) earlier this month and the group were very impressed with how good the results were with relatively minimal effort. One of our members has since let me know that she has run with your ideas and been very pleased with what she has achieved.
Cheers, Neil
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#14 kmalacho

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Posted 25 February 2011 - 07:06 AM

Hello, I have been able to drag and move the components in the chart but when I select and "move to front" in order to fix the connector lines nothing happens. The lines stay as they are which is to say in a very misconfigured pattern. I tried moving individual boxes around to see if I could make it work and all that did was make it worse. Any suggestions as to what I may be doing wrong?

thanks,
Kathy M

#15 Terry Reigel

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Posted 25 February 2011 - 08:03 AM

Kathy,

You might look at my article on editing VCF lines to see if it helps.
Terry

See my Tutorials and Articles on using TMG at tmg.reigelridge.com

The Second Edition of my book, A Primer for The Master Genealogist, is still available
. For more information see my website.

#16 Virginia Blakelock

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Posted 25 February 2011 - 09:02 AM

Kathy -

As you are finding, it can get messy and complicated re-connecting boxes, and I'm not sure the move to front command will make it any easier. Is this a one-page or wall chart? If the latter, would it be practical to make a separate chart for that one group (or family) and then paste it in the right place in the larger chart?

You may find some help on connector lines in the videos listed in the One-Page article at the top of the forum.

Virginia
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#17 Mike Talbot

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Posted 25 February 2011 - 10:01 AM

Hello, I have been able to drag and move the components in the chart but when I select and "move to front" in order to fix the connector lines nothing happens. The lines stay as they are which is to say in a very misconfigured pattern. I tried moving individual boxes around to see if I could make it work and all that did was make it worse. Any suggestions as to what I may be doing wrong?

thanks,
Kathy M


The procedure in my original post in this topic does not effect connector lines nor their connections. The move to front of each of the three boxes will cover the offending connector lines if the boxes are opaque.

In TMG, the chart definition option for box fill must have color or color by generation parameter selected. Selecting transparent fill would cause your symptoms.

Let us know if this helps.

Good luck,

#18 kmalacho

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Posted 25 February 2011 - 10:43 AM

In TMG, the chart definition option for box fill must have color or color by generation parameter selected. Selecting transparent fill would cause your symptoms.

Let us know if this helps.

Good luck,
[/quote]

Thank you very much! That is exaclty what I needed to change, I had it set for transparent.

Regards,
Kathy M

#19 Mike Talbot

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Posted 21 May 2011 - 07:53 AM

Now and then you run across a family that many cousins would enjoy. The attached chart is such an example. All of the children of one family married children of another family,

TMG gives an option to display siblings, but siblings are displayed for everyone. This often results in a huge and confusing ancestor chart, when all that you want are the siblings of the subject and their spouses. The standard TMG ancestor chart with siblings does not show spouses.

1. Generate and edit an ancestor chart of one of the desired siblings as per the Gen.Patton chart beginning this topic.

2. Generate a two generation descendant chart of either parent of the siblings.

3. Delete the connector lines to all siblings and their spouses. Note that many of the lines can be selected and deleted in groups.

4. Arrange the siblings in a column and their spouses in another adjacent column as seen in the attached final product.

5. You will note that some siblings boxes are larger than their spouses. Simply add blank lines to the smaller of the spouse boxes to make the box sizes compatible.

6. Note the total height of the sibling spouse column on the modified descendant chart, You will need to open that much space on the destination ancestor chart.

7. Use diagram measurements to make the ancestor chart height 11 inches. Then group select the bottom, maternal ancestors and jog them down to open the chart for the siblings with spouses from the descendant chart to fit.

8. Copy and past the sibling couples from the descendant chart to the ancestor chart. Move them to the desired location, add any explanatary text and trim the chart.

This took less than an hour to do and is easier done that said.

Best wishes,

Attached Thumbnails

  • MireTalbotAnc.jpg


#20 Mike Talbot

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 01:49 PM

When you have images for all 31 people on a 5 generations ancestor chart, the simple 30 second fix shown in the first example in this topic will fail to fit an 8.5 x 11 in. (standard US letter size) sheet of paper. In this example, the raw VCF chart generated was 10.5 x 15.5 inches.

You will need to reduce the height of this chart, as well as its width. To do so will take a bit more than 30 seconds, but less than 10 minutes.

1. Generate and edit your 5 generations chart as per the first message in this topic. You now have an 8.5 x 15.5 in. chart in this example.

2. To reduce the height of the chart, group-select all chart components for the 15 persons at the bottom of generation 5 all the way to the left edge or the chart. Jog the selection upwards until the 2nd person's box overlaps the 1st persons box in generation 5. At first, take care that you do not cover any important information in the box that is being overlapped.


3. Now, group-select all components for the 14-5th generation bottom persons in the chart. Jog the selection upwards until the 3rd person's box overlaps the 2nd persons box in generation 5. Repeat this step until you have moved up and overlapped all boxes in generation 15.


4. You may now twek your moves to achieve your desired chart height. If you must cover some important data in a 5th generation box it's OK. Most charts from other products don't support a picture for 5th generation folks and replace BMD data with something like life span. Finally, trim your chart.

Notes:
1. I always copy and add spouse box(es) from another chart, overlapping the subject..
2. The name of the chart was hand edited to show that it can be done.
3. The subject, spouse and title boxes were narrowed just to show that it can be done.
4. The 10 minutes of VCF work includes all the items in these notes.
5. You may assume that these techniques work for any reasonably sized sheet of paper.
6. It will be easier to work with the Zoom-to-Fit menu entry invoked. Import an external pic or two.
7. See other posts in this forum for details of the techniques needed.

Enjoy the results of VCF editing to get your charts done your way,

Attached Thumbnails

  • frLou9Orig.jpg
  • frLou9.jpg





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