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TMG V9 does not include spouse data in journal reports

journal report spouse tags

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#1 Dave Shingleton Jr

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Posted 18 January 2015 - 09:57 AM

I am new to TMG having been a long time UFT user.  I attempted to print Journal Reports yesterday and discovered that no information is included for spouses in the reports other than their name.  In UFT and Roots they were always automatically included and in TMGv9 they are not which makes the report useless to me.  How do I include spousal data in journal reports ie their tags ie birth death etc. for the main focus or starting person and ALL of their descendants?  


Edited by Dave Shingleton Jr, 18 January 2015 - 10:02 AM.


#2 JohnR

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Posted 18 January 2015 - 10:30 AM

I get spouses by selecting Custom format from Report Options and Include Spouse Events from Miscellaneous. This gives me the birth and death of the spouse but if anyone knows how to get the spouse's parents named I would like to know.



#3 Dave Shingleton Jr

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Posted 18 January 2015 - 12:49 PM

@John R.  Thanks I did what you suggested and it works, the spouse information is now there.  Yes, I agree the spouse's parents names are a must since they are not always included in birth, death, or marriage.  Hopefully someone will respond with how to add them also. 



#4 Terry Reigel

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Posted 19 January 2015 - 05:49 AM

Dave,

 

The issue of the name of spouse's parents being missing in TMG reports is caused by differences in the way that UFT and TMG treat them. As I understand it, in UFT they were added automatically by the report. In TMG, by default that is done by including variables for them in the Sentences of the Marriage tag.

 

When you imported your data from UFT the Sentences were imported as well, and the imported Sentences to not include the variable for the parents names. The solution is to edit the Sentences in the Tag Type to add that variable to the Marriage Tags. The standard Sentence for a Marriage Tag in TMG is:

 

[P] married [PO] <[PARO]> <[D]> <[L]>

 

The [PARO] variable produces the names of the parents of the other Principal, in the format:

 

, son of Robert Jones and Mary Smith,

 

So you would need to add that variable in the appropriate place in the Sentence(s) of your Marriage Tag. If you use Roles in that Tag you will need to add it to each Role.


Terry

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. For more information see my website.

#5 Dave Shingleton Jr

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Posted 19 January 2015 - 07:15 AM

@Terry So you told me what I need to do but do not tell me how to do it.  So where is the appropriate place in the sentence?

 

This is the current sentence the marriage tag has: [P] married [PO] <[PARO]> <[D]> <[L]> <[M]>

 

What would it need to look like?  Sorry to be so blunt but there has been a level of frustration with this program.



#6 Michael Hannah

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Posted 19 January 2015 - 09:49 AM

Hi Dave,

 

Please recognize that Wholly Genes as a company is not answering these posts.  They no longer develop, sell, or provide support for TMG  We who are left replying are just die-hard users trying to help other users.

 

Yes, there may be some level of frustration with this program, but with significant power and control over what it does comes a level of complexity in understanding how to cause it to do what you want.

 

As I have said in another of your posts, for details of what is going on and "how to do it" I recommend reviewing the web pages of Terry's TMG Tips.


Michael
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#7 Terry Reigel

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Posted 19 January 2015 - 12:42 PM

@Terry So you told me what I need to do but do not tell me how to do it.  So where is the appropriate place in the sentence?

 

This is the current sentence the marriage tag has: [P] married [PO] <[PARO]> <[D]> <[L]> <[M]>

 

What would it need to look like?  Sorry to be so blunt but there has been a level of frustration with this program.

Dave,

 

I have no way of knowing where it belongs in your Sentences because I don't know what your sentences are. Try reading the articles on modifying Sentence Structures on my website, as Michael suggests. If that doesn't help, post back here what the current Sentences are in your Marriage Tag, and tell us how you want the result to read, and we can be more specific.


Terry

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#8 Michael Hannah

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Posted 19 January 2015 - 02:33 PM

I know you said, Dave, that:

This is the current sentence the marriage tag has: [P] married [PO] <[PARO]> <[D]> <[L]> <[M]>

 

but a sentence template is for a particular role and could either be "local" or "global".  If your example above is from what you see in the Tag Type Definition of the Marriage Tag Type for a particular role, that may not be the actual template being used by the people in a particular Marriage tag.  They could be assigned a different role, or have a local template for that tag for that role.  So when you post back, as Terry suggests, be sure to be clear where you are getting the template text you are citing.


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#9 Dave Shingleton Jr

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Posted 19 January 2015 - 06:42 PM

Perhaps I should approach this differently and specifically explain what I want TMG to do.  Perhaps it's not possible for it to do what I want it to do and there is no fix.  I am getting the gist of templates, codes, roles, etc As I discover more about the program.  I do own Terry's book and I am familiar with Terry's Tips.  If I could find the how to in those sources I would not be asking for help here.  I could not find a how to for this particular situation in those sources.  

 

In the case of a Journal Report when a person ie spouse male or female marries a descendant of the subject person of the report I would like for that person's parents names to be included in the journal report provided the parents are in the database.  UFT always did it as a one line sentence provided that person's parents were in the database. an example would be: Hannah was the daughter of James Gray and Elizabeth Henderson. 

 

I have discovered that TMG does not replicate this action in journal reports and that's what I would like to do if possible since I have imported 5,000 names from UFT.  

 

Is there a Global solution for this and would it be done to a marriage tag or could it be a birth tag?  How would TMG know to apply this only to a spouse in a journal report vs a descendant?

 

This is why I am unsure to put the code PARO at if that is the fix or to show you a specific template.



#10 Terry Reigel

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Posted 20 January 2015 - 05:49 AM

Dave,

 

It sounds now like the issue isn't the sections where each person has their own narratives, but in the list of children. Is that right?

 

If that's the case the settings on the Tags tab of report Options will solve the problem. The box on the right side of that tab control how the statements about the children are presented. Children who are carried forward - that is who have their own section, always get an "abbreviated" list of events.

 

The four check boxes under "Include only" control which events are included.

 

The three radio buttons under "Format" control how the information will be presented. The first choice - "He was born in 1861" is the only one that uses Sentences for the children's list. Since the parent's name are produced by the [PARO] variable in the marriage tag, this format must be selected in order to get the parents' names. The other two choices produce very abbreviated formats that are not based on the Sentences.

 

Finally, the first section, under "Applies to," controls whether the abbreviated formats specified below apply to all children, or only to those carried forward. If you choose "Only children that are carried forward" the children who do not have their own sections will have full narrative output like the people who do.


Terry

See my Tutorials and Articles on using TMG at tmg.reigelridge.com

The Second Edition of my book, A Primer for The Master Genealogist, is still available
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#11 Dave Shingleton Jr

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Posted 23 January 2015 - 10:59 AM

Thanks for the input Terry in regards to the abbreviated format as I was wondering what that was all about,  The issue was the PARO variable like you said. I just did not know all the places it should be but now I do.  It was in the global sentence for the marriage tag and in the principal role tag but it was not in the role sentence for bride or groom.  Once I added it to those roles I now have that sentence in the journal report like UFT had that says; Sally is the daughter of George Jones and Tammy Wynette (example).  I have found that when you import from UFT to TMG many of the sentences get changed or lack something and the dynamics are a bit different that someone starting from scratch in TMG with no import.


Edited by Dave Shingleton Jr, 23 January 2015 - 11:00 AM.


#12 Terry Reigel

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Posted 23 January 2015 - 05:25 PM

You're welcome, Dave.

 

Yes, the import from UFT does cause some issues. It imports the Sentences from UFT in order to not lose all the effort you may have invested in them in that program. But there are a few differences, like this one, that are not compensated for by the import.


Terry

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#13 Judy M.

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Posted 27 February 2017 - 09:19 AM

Terry,

 

You said, "Children who are carried forward - that is who have their own section, always get an 'abbreviated' list of events." I have always used Abbreviated events for children applies to only children who are carried forward. I'm not clear as to the difference in Journal Report output between that option and using "all children."

 

Thanks for your help.


Judy Madnick
Albany, NY


#14 Terry Reigel

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Posted 27 February 2017 - 07:44 PM

Judy,

 

If you choose "all children" all of the children get the abbreviated events, even if they don't have their own sections later.


Terry

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The Second Edition of my book, A Primer for The Master Genealogist, is still available
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#15 Judy M.

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 06:00 AM

Sorry  -- I'm having trouble picturing this. Can you provide an example of each (or is there one on the Web)?


Judy Madnick
Albany, NY


#16 Terry Reigel

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 04:18 PM

Judy,

 

Children "carried forward" (that is, who have their own section) have only a brief section when listed under their parents. That section displays only birth, marriage/divorce, death and burial tags. On the Tags section of the Journal Options you can choose to exclude some of these tags, and you can also choose one of three levels of detail for them.

 

By default children who are not carried forward will display all their tags in the listing under their parents. These tags are displayed in full narrative format based on the Sentences in those tags. Depending on how many tags a person has, a child's listing under his or her parent could go on for pages - just like it would if that person did have his or her own section.

 

This result happens when you choose the "Only children that are carried forward" option.

 

But if you choose the "All children" option, children not carried forward get the same brief BMDB section as those who are carried forward.


Terry

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The Second Edition of my book, A Primer for The Master Genealogist, is still available
. For more information see my website.

#17 Judy M.

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 12:22 PM

Okay, I tested this on my young grandchildren. If I choose the "Only children that are carried forward" option, I am getting the brief BMDB plus additional information about those grandchildren, such as the person for whom they are named and their Hebrew names. This sounds like the opposite of what should happen because I obviously don't fully understand the terminology! If I choose "All children," all I'm getting are their birth dates and locations (since they're not married, etc.) but not the other tags I've used for them.


Judy Madnick
Albany, NY


#18 Terry Reigel

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 03:21 PM

Judy,

 

That sounds like you are seeing exactly what I described.

 

If you choose "Only children that are carried forward" you are seeing all tags because these children are not being carried forward. Therefore they do not get only the BMDB tags.

 

If you choose "All Children" they get only the BMDB tags because that rule is then applied to all children, whether or not they are carried forward.


Terry

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The Second Edition of my book, A Primer for The Master Genealogist, is still available
. For more information see my website.

#19 Michael Hannah

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 04:22 PM

Judy,

 

Maybe it would help to say it another way?  First the phrase "children carried forward" means those children who will be repeated (carried forward) as the Subject of their own separate Journal section later in the report.  But children get their own later separate section only if they in turn have children.  That separate Journal section will include all the tags specified to output for the Subject of a person's own section.  But if a child does NOT have their own children, a separate Journal section will NOT be produced later for that child.  (That is the definition of a Journal report.)  The only place child-less children and their events will be output in a Journal report is within their parent's list of children.

 

The typical setting for the Report Option "abbreviated events" is "Only children that are carried forward" (i.e. children with children).  Since these children will be repeated (carried forward) in their own Journal section in the next generation where they are the Subject of their own section, most people choose to have only "abbreviated events" in their parent's children section to avoid duplicating the output of all the event tags for this child in both the parent's children section and in that child's own section.

 

But most users do not choose "All children" because that also would abbreviate the events for those children who are not carried forward.  Since the parent's list is the only place events for such children will be output, any events for such a child other than the specified abbreviated events will never be output in the Journal report with that setting.

 

As Terry suggests, some users will choose "All children" to avoid the output from lots of events for all children who have no children.  But that is usually a special case.

 

Of course if the number of generations is limited and this is the final generation, the children of this last generation are a special case since their separate section would be in the "next" generation which will not output.  Thus such children will not be "carried forward" to get their own section with all their events, whether or not they have their own children, so their events will output within the parent's list of children as specified for children not carried forward.

 

Does this help?


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#20 Judy M.

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 08:26 AM

Terry and Michael,

 

Thanks for your patience. I think I understand it now. Whew!


Judy Madnick
Albany, NY





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