JonP 0 Report post Posted May 19, 2010 I'm interested to know what Wholly Genes plans are for future versions of TMG. Specifically, I'd like to know if Wholly Genes is aware of and interested in replacing the now abandonded Visual FoxPro database with something that is more current. My main interest in this is that I'd like to be able to use Unicode characters, enabling other languages in TMG. Beyond this, I'm worried about saving a lot of data in TMG which will then not be compatible with more up-to-date software in the future. There is a fair amount of discussion out there about the GEDCOM files produced by TMG not transferring all data to other programs (ie., GRAMPS). I'd really much much rather continue using TMG, which seems to be the best program available for Windows operating systems. But I would like to know from Wholly Genes developers if the product will continue to be supported and improved on. Thanks for a great product, J Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jim Byram 0 Report post Posted May 19, 2010 When you ask such questions here, you usually are only talking to other users. This has been discussed repeatedly on the forum. Wholly Genes will not comment on future development plans and you aren't likely to get any response from developers on this forum or anywhere else regarding such plans. The current development focus, as far as I know, is on getting v8 completed. %%%%%%%%%% TMG exports all data supported by the GEDCOM v5.5 specs and creates a standard GEDCOM file. What's the issue? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JonP 0 Report post Posted May 19, 2010 Thanks Jim. I did a quick search for some of the issues I raised, and noted it in a few threads. I thought it might be useful to bring it up as its own new thread in case Wholly Genes is at all receptive to comments from users in the forums. I'm sure prospective users of the new version of the software will also be interested by the issue of the outmoded underlying database, lack of support for unicode/foreign language scripts and keyboards, etc. (also mentioned in a wikipedia description of the software). Anyway, as I said, I'm particularly interested in staying with TMG, since I already use it. In the meantime I've used a number of tricks to represent characters that aren't supported (for instance, I write \o for ơ)... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mick Mickelson 0 Report post Posted May 19, 2010 Thanks Jim. I did a quick search for some of the issues I raised, and noted it in a few threads. I thought it might be useful to bring it up as its own new thread in case Wholly Genes is at all receptive to comments from users in the forums. I'm sure prospective users of the new version of the software will also be interested by the issue of the outmoded underlying database, lack of support for unicode/foreign language scripts and keyboards, etc. (also mentioned in a wikipedia description of the software). Anyway, as I said, I'm particularly interested in staying with TMG, since I already use it. In the meantime I've used a number of tricks to represent characters that aren't supported (for instance, I write \o for ơ)... Jon, You might want to try a little freeware program called "AllChars". I use it with TMG all the time and the international characters stay put after I type them in. It is simple to use and requires minuscule memory. I have mine set to load automatically at start up. Examples: ö, ø, Ç, ç, Å, ¢, €, ñ, Ñ, ß, æ, ¿, §, †, ‡, ±, Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jim Byram 0 Report post Posted May 19, 2010 ...(also mentioned in a wikipedia description of the software). The wiki is correct as far as it goes. It could have listed additional issues with the current software that should be considered by prospective users. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JonP 0 Report post Posted May 19, 2010 Thanks for the note about allchars, Mick. I think the problem is that while the characters work for displaying people's names, place names, etc., in the underlying database the various characters would not be disaggregated--that is to say that an ơ and an o might appear different, but might be the same character in the database in some way (I'm not an expert on this, so bear with me...). This would result in confusion between entries that are otherwise identical: people who were born in Møn, Denmark might appear to have the same birthplace as those born in the Mon Kingdom in Burma, for instance. This is somewhat hypothetical, but it does appear that the underlying database does not distinguish unicode letters, and that is one principal issue. The other, of course, is that if all of TMG is based on a database structure that is no longer supported, then eventually TMG will start to cause crashes, will not work, etc., as users upgrade their computers and use new operating systems. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jim Byram 0 Report post Posted May 19, 2010 VFP9 supports ANSI characters and that is what TMG7 uses and stores. There was an update to VFP9 for WinVista (SP2) and TMG7 does not use that update for technical reasons. I've asked the developer to relook at doing that update several times to see if there is a solution. As far as I'm aware, there hasn't been a VFP9 update since then (with the exception of one security update). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JonP 0 Report post Posted May 19, 2010 Right. And it certainly appears from all discussion on the web that VFP9 is the final version of VFP, which is already outmoded... Not to belabor the point, but just to point out, Unicode is the standard for broad foreign language support, and is now standard in the vast majority of applications, including browsers, which is why browsers will now correctly allow typing and display of, for instance, Vietnamese: Cái thằng chồng em nó chẳng ra gì. Chinese: 现代汉语词典 Lao: ອາໂປກະສິນ Etc...! Alas, it can't be done with ANSI OK, enough for now, thanks for listening. Hope the TMG will respond (if not on the forum, then perhaps by making changes to the software ) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jim Byram 0 Report post Posted May 19, 2010 Microsoft stated some time ago that VFP9 would be the last version of VFP. The lack of Unicode support is an old issue that Wholly Genes is very much aware of. There is already a Wholly Genes response to the Unicode issue in another topic in this forum. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jane Neuman 0 Report post Posted May 20, 2010 I am a happy user of TMG. There are enhancements that I'd like to see, but overall I'm happy. Having said that, I really worry about the VFP issue too. I am not at all technical and have no idea about what is involved with changing the underlying database, but can imagine it is a seriously big deal. I also know Wholly Genes doesn't comment on future priorities or enhancements. I get that. As a customer and a user with a big time investment in TMG, I would just like Wholly Genes to say SOMETHING about their ongoing committment to the product and continuing to make it the best and most complete product on the market. I don't need specifics or timelines, but I would like to know that I'm not going to be obsolete in two or three years or that they don't plan to stand still because the underlying database is dead. I think it is completely natural for the user community to be concerned about this. Wholly Genes wants a committed user base and I think it reasonable for the users to want to know that Wholly Genes is also committed. The longer they stay silent on this topic, the more concerned I get. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tmomeyer 0 Report post Posted May 20, 2010 Jon, Thanks for posting. I agree that concern about the underlying database going out of date is valid. Don't worry about bringing it up again or asking the question. We're all investing lots of time and energy with the software and would appreciate some indication that there is "work in progress" towards the "going forward". It's pretty obvious that as Jim B says that it may come up from time to time, however, since I started using TMG, I haven't seen any messages that work is in progress towards updates to the out-of-date underlying database... sorry if I missed any! So... yes, like you, assurances regarding progress would be welcome other than assurances that it has been "discussed"! Thanks for posting! Tom. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jim Byram 0 Report post Posted May 20, 2010 The underlying database isn't going to go 'out-of-date' for a while. Microsoft has committed to support Visual FoxPro until 2015. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michael Dietz 0 Report post Posted May 20, 2010 (edited) [edited... jeb] I agree it would be nice not be pinned to VFP. If it was written in a "normal" programming language the number of people who could do add-on's would grow exponentially. But it is not and so we live with it. I have a small suggestion. Would it be possible to form something akin to an open source group and have them parcel out features of TMG to be written in a common language, all of which is under the guidance and ownership of Wholly Genes? Once that set of programs replicates TMG, or at least the most commonly used features, then have TMG prepare a conversion and those who are looking for such things as Unicode could start transferring over. This could drastically reduce the cost to TMG and the burden upon the existing staff. Having written commercial software for the last 25 years I probably have bumped into most of the problems with upgrades and conversions. While they can be a mess, the TMG community has a great deal of expertise within it. And we like TMG and we would like to see it constantly being more "modern" and better. I for one would volunteer for such an endeavor. Just a suggestion. Mike Edited December 15, 2010 by Jim Byram Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyH3rd 0 Report post Posted May 21, 2010 I think what everyone really wants to know, but hasn't asked in so many words is this: Has WG already reached a decision that, at some point in time, there will be a future version of TMG that is not written in VFP? No need for timetable, details, or even what it will be written in - just an assurance that it will be written. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snowdrift 0 Report post Posted May 24, 2010 I'd like to see TMG go open source, with a parallel development in Linux. And I do agree with the Visual FoxPro comments above. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
laura1814 0 Report post Posted July 15, 2010 I am also concerned about VFP, and assume that when VFP no longer makes sense, WG will redevelop TMG appropriately. Yet it seems to me that, knowing that VFP will be no longer supported, that means it's time to redirect energy away from any further development in VFP (TMG v8) and stop spending resources on something that has an expiration date, even if it's five years away. Since everything takes 3-4 times as long to develop as anyone thinks it will, why not use that full five years to migrate instead of working on a dead-end for two or three of those five years? As a TMG user since the early 90s, what concerns me is that I have noticed a recurring pattern in TMG development. And that is, quite simply, that WG is always behind the curve and playing catch-up. The updating process takes so long that by the time that a new version comes out, it's already arguably obsolete-- 16-bit vs. 32-bit vs. 64-bit, DOS vs. Windows, Windows 98 vs. XP, XP vs. Vista, and now 7-- and then of course there's the whole VFP issue. Similarly, there was a lot of time and energy put into development of this forum when probably a wiki is a better solution. I don't know what the answer is-- maybe open source is indeed the way to go, if it is possible to maintain a sufficient revenue stream. I do have confidence that Bob is aware of the problem and working on a solution, but I am concerned that once again we will see a long-drawn out redevelopment process playing catch-up that causes TMG to lose market share. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jim Byram 0 Report post Posted July 15, 2010 I think what everyone really wants to know, but hasn't asked in so many words is this: Has WG already reached a decision that, at some point in time, there will be a future version of TMG that is not written in VFP? You'll need to ask Wholly Genes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Terry Reigel 0 Report post Posted July 15, 2010 Similarly, there was a lot of time and energy put into development of this forum when probably a wiki is a better solution. My understanding is the forum is an off-the-shelf product, rather like wiki software. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
laura1814 0 Report post Posted July 15, 2010 Yes, I didn't mean that WG had developed the forum software itself, I was talking about content development, like the FAQ and newsletters. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ray Marshall 0 Report post Posted July 31, 2010 Hello Everybody! I've been a user of TMG for ten or more years, starting with version 6 and now happily use 7. I love it. I am pretty much at a brick wall going backwards and I'm not particularly interested in living additions to my data base that has 2700 names or so. I'm getting to be old and I am more interested in sharing my data with others. And, particularly with my siblings, I would like their input if they should so choose. But I wouldn't want them to make changes that I don't know about. What would be nice is a crippled "read only" version of TMG that I could send them and then let them make all the corrections they want in a text file (preferably stories, anecdotes, etc and critical date corrections). Then I could make the corrections myself. If I ran off a ton of reports, that would be so intimidating that they wouldn't do anything with them. There are lots of lines involved. But if they could search and navigate (without altering the data), they might find it useful and fun. Is that an impractical request? Or a potential copyright infringement issue with Wholly Genes? I do have a Rootsweb Freepages website. I could post a read only TMG copy there, too, for visitors who might be related to me and working on more remote lines. I also have my major lines on World Connect. If someone swiped some of my work, I'm 68, in reasonably good health, but in not that many years I'm not going to be around to worry about it. Ray Marshall Minneapolis Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Terry Reigel 0 Report post Posted July 31, 2010 Ray, There is a read-only version of TMG - it's called FamilyTree SuperTools, though I'm not sure whether it can read TMG7 files. But that's not a very good way to share your information, in my opinion. The problem is that the screens are just not designed for easy use by a relative with a casual, at best, interest in family history. Instead, I suggest you create a website with Second Site, and share that. If you have recorded lots of text notes, you can have it create a narrative-style site, rather like TMG's Journal reports. If not, you may prefer one of the bullet or grid formats, which are something more like a family group sheet. In either case, you could post them on your website, or, especially if you want to include living people, make copies on CDs and send those to your relatives. If you set the program to put one person per page, it would be easy for your readers to print the pages for individual people and make notes on them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
altenbernd 0 Report post Posted July 31, 2010 I second this suggestion. Second Site is a wonderful way to share information with family. Second Site comes with lots of options that allow you to share as much or as little as you want with other people. The generated data is very easy to browse through. The hyperlinks make it easy to jump from one item to another. Even the casual user will find they are intrigued with knowing more about the family. The trick is getting them to then give you some feedback back!!!! Sheila Altenbernd http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancest...om/~altenbernd/ Instead, I suggest you create a website with Second Site, and share that. If you set the program to put one person per page, it would be easy for your readers to print the pages for individual people and make notes on them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sam.m 0 Report post Posted August 1, 2010 Ray, You may also use Mocakebi to view projects (read only) created by TMG v4.x, v5.x, v6.x, and v7.x. (not sure about the comming v8.x) and the best part it is free and approved by Bob Velke from Whollygenes. Mocabebi is installed as part of On This Day from John Cardinal (thanks John) which is a great program for showing birthdays and anniversaries to your relatives. Sam Previously Discussed here What would be nice is a crippled "read only" version of TMG that I could send them and then let them make all the corrections they want in a text file (preferably stories, anecdotes, etc and critical date corrections). Then I could make the corrections myself. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
altenbernd 0 Report post Posted August 1, 2010 John, I had no idea that was available. I just tried it. It's very cool. thanks once again for all your efforts in creating tools to make TMG so much more useful. sheila altenbernd You may also use Mocakebi to view projects (read only) quote] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JonP 0 Report post Posted November 14, 2010 I'd just like to revisit this issue again: I'd like to just raise the issue of how important it is for Wholly Genes to address the issue of The Master Genealogist relying on Visual Fox Pro as its database. This program is deprecated and will not be supported in future versions of windows. Furthermore, and most importantly to me, it does not permit the use of Unicode, so that it is impossible to use this software effectively with most non-English languages or non-Romanized languages. Has Wholly Genes made any statements about this? Thanks! Jon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites