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Dan Stone

The Discontinuation Of TMG

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I have been a faithful TMG user for years and am very sad to see it go. That said, my first concern is my data. While I don't have 20,000, I do have almost 7,000 individuals in my database and loads of witness roles for census and marriage records. I know those don't export to gedcom. Is everyone hoping that other developers will use Genbridge to create a direct import method? Much as I love TMG I want to move my data to something new as soon as possible just in case I have to manually re-key some of the data. Better done sooner rather than later. Is there a way now to export witness roles or even just print them out with the individual IDs so I can track them down?

Edited by byrt

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I'm 78 and am at the end of the process of closing out 25 years of research stored in TMG. Have portable hard-drives for each kid filled and almost ready to give to them. The place of pride is the folder with the complete TMG data base and a folder with its backup. As a last backup, there's a GEDCOM folder. I am sick at the thought of losing tremendous amounts of work. The only saving grace is a folder with Second Site that will at least allow them to see the information. But how will they add their own family history to the basis I built? Giving them a copy of TMG is not a solution. The only wisdom I've heard is be patient and see what develops.

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... my first concern is my data... Much as I love TMG I want to move my data to something new as soon as possible just in case I have to manually re-key some of the data. Better done sooner rather than later.

I disagree. I believe better done later rather than sooner. In my opinion the sooner you try to move your data to some other software the more data you will lose, have to rekey, or have to covert to some other structure in that program. Current programs simply do not have the features or import tools to receive a lot of the data and advanced features of TMG.

 

Maybe I am being overly optimistic, but I think that the discontinuation of TMG will cause other genealogy software vendors to enhance their current products to better import TMG files and attract TMG users. And Bob Velke's offering of his GenBridge import/export software for free should greatly help vendors implement TMG import capabilities. But that will take some time. I do not intend to even start looking at alternatives until at least a year or two from now.

 

Is there a way now to export witness roles or even just print them out with the individual IDs so I can track them down?

Yes, see John Cardinal's TMG Utility, specifically the "Export Data" function for Sentences. See his example of an HTML page of sentences and roles which is output in Grid format here. That outputs the role definitions, and you can use TMG's List of Witnesses report to output what role each person is assigned in a tag.

 

The place of pride is the folder with the complete TMG data base and a folder with its backup... But how will they add their own family history to the basis I built? Giving them a copy of TMG is not a solution.

I think that is a good solution, Mike. They could choose to use it for several years from now. And as I propose above, in a few years I believe (most of) the files of that TMG project will be able to be imported into a current genealogy program.

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While I have a lot of respect for John Cardinal, I think he is off base in blaming the demise of TMG on users who did not religiously upgrade to the most current versions. TMG, like other software, is a business proposition and upgrades have to justify their costs by providing new features, improved performance, etc. I only upgraded TMG on occasion, when I believed that the value of the accumulated changes justified the expense. For some time now, WG has not delivered the quality improvements commensurate with the price of upgrades. This has been especially true given the buggy nature of some of the upgrades.

 

I had a fairly successful GEDCOM based software product for many years (Progenitor) but eventually realized that the expense of providing upgrades and other related maintenance activities could not be supported by new sales and the price I could charge for upgrades. I didn't blame anyone. I just folded the product after making almost $7,500 from it. John Cardinal made much more money from his Second Site connection to TMG. Perhaps he should have contributed part of that to the continued financial health of WG instead of blaming simple users.

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So I decided that I like TMG a lot. And it would be best to purchase on CD a copy pof the latest version.

 

So I tried to do that on line. No dice. System simply refuses to work.

 

So I figured I would call and place a phone order. No dice. They use the same system, as the web order form and cannot use it since it is apparently broken. Even when I want to give Wholly Genes money I cannot.

 

WOW. And not a good WOW.

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And then I changed browsers. Shut down Firefox and opend up Chrome. Worked like a charm. Seems so simple I am surprsed the order desk gurus at Wholly Genes did not suggest it.

 

I have found that on ornery web sites Chrome is the best.

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Hi Bob

I'm sorry to see TMG being discontinued. I have been using TMG since you and Dick Eastman started talking about the DOS version on Compuserve. I've owned every version since. (Including DOS) Well, I just wanted to wish you well and it's been a great ride. You deserve some freedom from us, so escape to a great retirement. Thank you for you hard work and dedication. Best wishes on your retirement.

Conrad Covell

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I wish Bob well, and am so sad that TMG will not continue to be developed. I also appreciate TMG so much.

 

I have a MAC now and can get back to genealogy after a couple of years hiatus. My old Windows machine still works, fortunately. I have looked at other programs this week and none of them, Windows or MAC, will do as much as TMG does. My main goal is to finish four books, using the Journal report for ancestors (one book per grandparent). Absolutely none of the other programs do that very well. I would lose so much of my information in any other narrative format. I'm sticking with TMG for now and will start using it on my MAC with Parallels.

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I’m sorry to see that the discontinuation of TMG has been posted. I also wish Bob, his family, and the TMG staff well as they go through this major life change. I have used TMG and the companion Second Site for many years and I think that this combination is far superior to any other products that are out there.

 

I had to go through a similar transition with my data when Ultimate Family Tree (UFT) was discontinued. Since UFT still worked over several OS and computer upgrades, I worked for over two years adding to and editing my UFT database to put it in the best shape for transferring over to TMG.

 

I have tried in the past, and just recently, to transfer my TMG data into Family Tree Maker (FTM) and the TMG import into FTM 2014 does not work correctly. I have seen repeatable errors in parent and child links. I have tried the GEDCOM 5.5 export out of TMG and then read that file into FTM. This process seems to work with some errors that are identified in the log file. For my large database (121K people) these steps can take about four hours to run on my computer. I plan to keep editing my TMG database until I can get the errors out. However, I expect that I have a year or more to do this transfer.

 

Thanks again.

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I have tried in the past, and just recently, to transfer my TMG data into Family Tree Maker (FTM) and the TMG import into FTM 2014 does not work correctly.

Thanks again.

Unfortunately that's what is going to happen. The GenBridge TMG import has a number of issues and is not a viable import solution. In addition, it is out of date for more recent TMG versions.

 

Unless other developers write TMG import modules, the only viable method to move your data to another program is using a TMG GEDCOM and spending considerable time cleaning up the imported data. You need to do test imports with a small subset of your data. You will find that you can edit your GEDCOM to facilitate the import to other programs and reduce the post-import cleanup.

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9.03 Having trouble making a good readable gedcom file. No trouble with Version 8, but I can't go back now.

 

V 8 GEDCOM was about 6,000KB V 9.03 is only about 1,200 with same options. Message when imported reads "This is not a valid, complete GEDCOM file. It is missing information and does not have the required "0 TRLR" at the end", what ever that means. And yest I have waited for the program to complete. Has anyone else had problems importing a GEDCOM File made by TMG 9.03?

 

Thanks for any help,

 

Gary

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Doesn't TMG "phone home" to validate the registration code every so often and if so will these servers be maintained ? If they go away what happens ?

 

-Ken

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Doesn't TMG "phone home" to validate the registration code every so often...

 

-Ken

 

(Rewritten to make clearer.)

 

Once you have the program installer in hand, the installer and program have no need to connect to the Internet for installing and running the program. A registration check is done each time that the program is run and is done using code that is internal to the program. A machine with a TMG installation never needs to be connected to the Internet.

Edited by Jim Byram

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9.03 Having trouble making a good readable gedcom file...

"This is not a valid, complete GEDCOM file. It is missing information and does not have the required "0 TRLR" at the end."

 

Hi Gary,

 

The "TRLR" line is always the last line written to any GEDCOM file, so its lack is a sure sign the entire file was not created. The creation of GEDCOM files has been a problem for some users with many versions of TMG. In all cases which I can recall, the problem has always been that some other program was running in the background simultaneously accessing the GEDCOM file as it was being created. Common examples of such programs are automated backup programs like DropBox, or antivirus, or cloud sync programs, or ??? Check to see if you have such a program running, and either stop it while creating the GEDCOM, or configure the program not to monitor the folder where you are creating the GEDCOM file.

 

Hope this gives you ideas,

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Doesn't TMG "phone home" to validate the registration code every so often...

 

-Ken

 

(Rewritten to make clearer.)

 

Once you have the program installer in hand, the installer and program have no need to connect to the Internet for installing and running the program. A registration check is done each time that the program is run and is done using code that is internal to the program. A machine with a TMG installation never needs to be connected to the Internet.

 

Related to this, does the TMG installer have any inbuilt count of how many installs I have done in order to ensure that the number of installs does not exceed a licensed maximum? If it does, then eventually as I continue to replace my hardware over the coming years and reinstall TMG on the new hardware each time, am I eventually going to be stopped from doing that by the installer? I wouldn't want that scenario to eventuate years after TMG support has long gone.

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Related to this, does the TMG installer have any inbuilt count of how many installs I have done in order to ensure that the number of installs does not exceed a licensed maximum?

 

No.

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While I have a lot of respect for John Cardinal, I think he is off base in blaming the demise of TMG on users who did not religiously upgrade to the most current versions. TMG, like other software, is a business proposition and upgrades have to justify their costs by providing new features, improved performance, etc. I only upgraded TMG on occasion, when I believed that the value of the accumulated changes justified the expense. For some time now, WG has not delivered the quality improvements commensurate with the price of upgrades. This has been especially true given the buggy nature of some of the upgrades.

 

I had a fairly successful GEDCOM based software product for many years (Progenitor) but eventually realized that the expense of providing upgrades and other related maintenance activities could not be supported by new sales and the price I could charge for upgrades. I didn't blame anyone. I just folded the product after making almost $7,500 from it. John Cardinal made much more money from his Second Site connection to TMG. Perhaps he should have contributed part of that to the continued financial health of WG instead of blaming simple users.

 

If you don't know what you are talking about, you shouldn't comment. You do not have any idea what I made from Second Site. More importantly, I have contributed to the financial health of Wholly Genes (WG), both directly and indirectly. I won't go into detail on the direct way because that is a private matter between me and WG.

 

Indirectly, I supported WG by providing TMG Utility as free software to TMG users. (Please describe any free software you supplied that helps TMG users.) I was glad that many of those users chose to support a favorite charity of mine, but those donations were 100% voluntary. As part of that effort, I added features that Wholly Genes requested at no cost to WG. I spent a LOT of time helping TMG users solve various problems, including email advice but also directly fixing projects that were sent to me. I also created Second Site, and that has attracted many non-TMG users to buy TMG. The first two versions of Second Site were sold via the WG web store, and WG made a profit on each sale. I also traveled to several genealogy conferences, helped setup the WG booth, worked long hours in the WG booth helping users, and helped take the booth down at the end of the conference. I did not ask for any compensation; I was glad to help.

 

The notion that some releases of TMG were not good enough for users to upgrade may be true for some users, especially those who see the small picture, not the big picture. However, my comment was made in response to someone who wants to upgrade-evidence the program is desirable to him--but he wants a larger discount than the loyal customers who have already paid upgrade fees. Many of those loyal users understand that providing support costs money, and developing new versions cost money. While the goal is for the one-time price of the software to support those activities even if customers don't purchase every upgrade, TMG's small market makes that very difficult.

 

Many users who chose not to upgrade because they didn't think the upgrade fee was worth it still expected WG to provide support for those out-dated versions, and WG did it.

 

People who chose not to upgrade because they didn't think the upgrade fee was worth it may regret that decision when the back-level version they have doesn't work in the next version of MS Windows.

 

I do not claim that WG did exactly the right things and only discontinued TMG because unreasonable customers didn't upgrade. On the other hand, it's complete rubbish that someone who didn't upgrade now wants the price lowered.

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Yes, I think you should upgrade. Using TMG v9 provides the best platform for compatibility with modern versions of MS Windows.

Hi John, I get an error message trying to open a TMG9 project with your utility, something to do with it not supporting project structure version 11 databases. Any prospects for it to be revised to support TMG9? It does, after a quick response from John, having to do with getting the appropriate compatibility.ini file from http://www.johncardinal.com/tmgutil/compatibility.htm

 

Support doesn't get any better than that!

Edited by TomH

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Rootsmagic have stated that they are working on a direct import of TMG data.

 

Quote: "The RootsMagician is currently working on a direct import of The Master Genealogist into RootsMagic. No ETA on its availability yet"

 

I do hope all TMG users get a solution which enables them to take their valuable research forward.

 

Original thread - http://forums.rootsmagic.com/index.php?/topic/13713-migrate-from-the-master-genealogist-tmg/page-2

 

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I will miss TMG and plan to hold onto my data in TMG as long as possible. I use a Mac also - run Parallels with TMG and windows 7. I remember when I first found TMG - I was amazed at it's capabilities. Creating the tags - was like meeting my ancestors for the first time. TMG brought them alive - if that makes sense. I want to thank Bob and wish him all the best. I haven't been active in this community for several years, but I loved TMG and I appreciate all the help I received throughout the years - from Bob and from so many others. You will be missed. Thank you ~ Barb

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In your post directed at me, you snidely said: "Please describe any free software you supplied that helps TMG users."

 

I have supplied a program, witnessTMG, in various forms. The program reads the TMG proprietary files and inserts the relevant WITNESS statements into a TMG generated gedcom. Notice of it was first posted to this forum long ago and has since been cited by Jim Byram. The latest revision has been posted to the Rootsweb TMG forum. I intend also to post the latest revision to this forum.

 

I don't want to get into a contest regarding the cause of TMG's demise. It was you, however, who chose to blame a class of TMG users for its failure. In an earlier post, you said "TMG users who didn't upgrade are a leading cause of the demise of TMG". I believe this to be rather mean-spirited and narrow minded of you.

 

I still don't believe that common users have any moral obligation to support any software product through the purchase of unneeded upgrades. The product and its upgrades should be priced to be self-supporting. If that prices the product and its upgrades out of competitiveness, then something is amiss. Perhaps TMG has always been mispriced - but that is not the users fault. Those users who do not religiously purchase each new version are making a simple economic decision based on the value of a particular upgrade to them vs. its cost.

 

Regarding your support to WG, I am sure that you are to be commended. But the fact is that the nature and extent of this type of support was not sufficient to save TMG. Your Second Site program depends on a flourishing base of TMG users. Helping out on TMG conferences allows you to cultivate future Second Site users. Supplying your very useful TMG Utility could also well be viewed as shrewd advertisement.

 

It is true that I do not know the exact gross sales from Second Site. But I sold almost 300 copies of a clearly inferior product, Progenitor 2, in an era when computers were much more limited and before there was a mature internet. It is hard for me to believe that you haven't sold many more copies of Second Site. If I am wrong, then let me know what the gross sales actually amounted to and, if they are less, I will openly apologize to you - and perhaps offer you some advice on how to market Second Site.

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WitnessTMG Program

 

Builds witness entries from TMG propritary project files and includes them in a compatible TMG generated GEDCOM file.

 

This version of "witnessTMG" is the same program that was first announced on the Rootsweb TMG forum. It has been revised to work with TMG version 8 or 9 files.

 

The program asks that the TMG project be identified in the form of the core " . . . __.PJC" file of the project. It also asks for the input GEDCOM file to be identified. After the program processes and inserts the witness data, a new GEDCOM file is left in the program's folder as "newGEDCOM.ged". For reference purposes, the newly generated WITNESS statements are collected in a file named witnessOut.txt, stored in the same folder.

 

The generated witness statements are inserted as:

1 EVEN

2 TYPE Witness: [role] in [eventtype] for [Prin1] and [Prin2] **

2 DATE [date]*

2 PLACE [place]*

 

* entry is omitted when [date] or [place] is blank.

** either or both [prin1] and [prin2] is omitted when blank.

 

"witnessTMG" was originally developed to use gedcoms produced by some earlier versions of TMG. It was then revised to handle gedcoms produced by TMG Version 8. Tom Holden, another contributor to this forum, has successfully tested it with gedcoms produced by TMG version 9.

You may download the witnessTMG package via www.crestline-enterprises.com/witnessTMG. The WitnessTMG package is in the form of a zip file, whose only content is the "WitnessTMG.exe" program. One should extract the program from the zipped package and store in a convenient folder. You can run it from this folder, which becomes the folder containing the output "newGEDCOM.ged".

 

IMPORTANT NOTE: In order for the WitnessTMG Program to be able to read the internal files of The Master Genealogist, one must first install the Microsoft VFPOLEDB facility before installing the WitnessTMG Program. This can be gotten from: http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=14839 I believe that one may choose either of the relevant installers to download, although I have used VFPOLEDBSetup.msi. After the VFPOLEDB facility has been installed, one may install the WitnessTMG Program. All that is strictly required is that the GEDCOM file have the same numbering conventions of the TMG file and that the TMG file include all individuals that occur in the GEDCOM file. This requirement is most easily satisfied if the TMG project is the project file itself used to generate the GEDCOM file or is a superset of that project file.

 

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This discussion is very disappointing and defeatest.
Why are we giving up so quickly!

From my point of view, it's imperative that this product is not allowed to become part of the history we are recording. Surely such a top rated product needs to extend beyond the life of anyone. This product is a monument to the man who created it. It needs to be sold to someone who can continue the program. Alternative maybe the users could form a co-operative or something and employ developers?

Look forward to positive outcomes of the future.

Wal

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