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The Discontinuation Of TMG

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#41 Cemetery_Cleaner

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 07:13 PM



Shut everything off and disconnected the router.  File is only 474KB.  Wish I could say it worked.


Thanks anyway,



#42 donhansen

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 08:17 PM


Doesn't TMG "phone home" to validate the registration code every so often...




(Rewritten to make clearer.)


Once you have the program installer in hand, the installer and program have no need to connect to the Internet for installing and running the program. A registration check is done each time that the program is run and is done using code that is internal to the program. A machine with a TMG installation never needs to be connected to the Internet.


Related to this, does the TMG installer have any inbuilt count of how many installs I have done in order to ensure that the number of installs does not exceed a licensed maximum? If it does, then eventually as I continue to replace my hardware over the coming years and reinstall TMG on the new hardware each time, am I eventually going to be stopped from doing that by the installer? I wouldn't want that scenario to eventuate years after TMG support has long gone. 

#43 Jim Byram

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 04:14 AM

Related to this, does the TMG installer have any inbuilt count of how many installs I have done in order to ensure that the number of installs does not exceed a licensed maximum? 



#44 John Cardinal

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 11:45 AM

While I have a lot of respect for John Cardinal, I think he is off base in blaming the demise of TMG on users who did not religiously upgrade to the most current versions.  TMG, like other software, is a business proposition and upgrades have to justify their costs by providing new features, improved performance, etc.  I only upgraded TMG on occasion, when I believed that the value of the accumulated changes justified the expense.  For some time now, WG has not delivered the quality improvements commensurate with the price of upgrades.   This has been especially true given the buggy nature of some of the upgrades.


I had a fairly successful GEDCOM based software product for many years (Progenitor) but eventually realized that the expense of providing upgrades and other related maintenance activities could not be supported by new sales and the price I could charge for upgrades.  I didn't blame anyone.  I just folded the product after making almost $7,500 from it.  John Cardinal made much more money from his Second Site connection to TMG.  Perhaps he should have contributed part of that to the continued financial health of WG instead of blaming simple users.  


If you don't know what you are talking about, you shouldn't comment. You do not have any idea what I made from Second Site. More importantly, I have contributed to the financial health of Wholly Genes (WG), both directly and indirectly. I won't go into detail on the direct way because that is a private matter between me and WG.


Indirectly, I supported WG by providing TMG Utility as free software to TMG users. (Please describe any free software you supplied that helps TMG users.) I was glad that many of those users chose to support a favorite charity of mine, but those donations were 100% voluntary. As part of that effort, I added features that Wholly Genes requested at no cost to WG.  I spent a LOT of time helping TMG users solve various problems, including email advice but also directly fixing projects that were sent to me. I also created Second Site, and that has attracted many non-TMG users to buy TMG. The first two versions of Second Site were sold via the WG web store, and WG made a profit on each sale. I also traveled to several genealogy conferences, helped setup the WG booth, worked long hours in the WG booth helping users, and helped take the booth down at the end of the conference. I did not ask for any compensation; I was glad to help.


The notion that some releases of TMG were not good enough for users to upgrade may be true for some users, especially those who see the small picture, not the big picture. However, my comment was made in response to someone who wants to upgrade-evidence the program is desirable to him--but he wants a larger discount than the loyal customers who have already paid upgrade fees. Many of those loyal users understand that providing support costs money, and developing new versions cost money. While the goal is for the one-time price of the software to support those activities even if customers don't purchase every upgrade, TMG's small market makes that very difficult.


Many users who chose not to upgrade because they didn't think the upgrade fee was worth it still expected WG to provide support for those out-dated versions, and WG did it.


People who chose not to upgrade because they didn't think the upgrade fee was worth it may regret that decision when the back-level version they have doesn't work in the next version of MS Windows.


I do not claim that WG did exactly the right things and only discontinued TMG because unreasonable customers didn't upgrade. On the other hand, it's complete rubbish that someone who didn't upgrade now wants the price lowered.

#45 TomH

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 12:27 PM

Yes, I think you should upgrade. Using TMG v9 provides the best platform for compatibility with modern versions of MS Windows.

Hi John, I get an error message trying to open a TMG9 project with your utility, something to do with it not supporting project structure version 11 databases. Any prospects for it to be revised to support TMG9? It does, after a quick response from John, having to do with getting the appropriate compatibility.ini file from http://www.johncardi...mpatibility.htm


Support doesn't get any better than that!

Edited by TomH, 06 August 2014 - 01:09 PM.

#46 Rootsmagic user

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 05:15 PM

Rootsmagic have stated that they are working on a direct import of TMG data.


Quote: "The RootsMagician is currently working on a direct import of The Master Genealogist into RootsMagic. No ETA on its availability yet"


I do hope all TMG users get a solution which enables them to take their valuable research forward.


Original thread - http://forums.rootsm...gist-tmg/page-2


#47 Malloure

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 07:12 PM

I will miss TMG and plan to hold onto my data in TMG as long as possible. I use a Mac also - run Parallels with TMG and windows 7. I remember when I first found TMG - I was amazed at it's capabilities. Creating the tags - was like meeting my ancestors for the first time. TMG brought them alive - if that makes sense. I want to thank Bob and wish him all the best. I haven't been active in this community for several years, but I loved TMG and I appreciate all the help I received throughout the years - from Bob and from so many others. You will be missed. Thank you ~ Barb

#48 TPG

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 10:10 AM

In your post directed at me, you snidely said: "Please describe any free software you supplied that helps TMG users."


I have supplied a program, witnessTMG, in various forms.  The program reads the TMG proprietary files and inserts the relevant WITNESS statements into a TMG generated gedcom.  Notice of it was first posted to this forum long ago and has since been cited by Jim Byram.  The latest revision has been posted to the Rootsweb TMG forum. I intend also to post the latest revision to this forum.


I don't want to get into a contest regarding the cause of TMG's demise.  It was you, however, who chose to blame a class of TMG users for its failure.  In an earlier post, you said "TMG users who didn't upgrade are a leading cause of the demise of TMG".  I believe this to be rather mean-spirited and narrow minded of you.


I still don't believe that common users have any moral obligation to support any software product through the purchase of unneeded upgrades.  The product and its upgrades should be priced to be self-supporting.  If that prices the product and its upgrades out of competitiveness, then something is amiss.  Perhaps TMG has always been mispriced  - but that is not the users fault.  Those users who do not religiously purchase each new version are making a simple economic decision based on the value of a particular upgrade to them vs. its cost.


Regarding your support to WG, I am sure that you are to be commended.  But the fact is that the nature and extent of this type of support was not sufficient to save TMG.  Your Second Site program depends on a flourishing base of TMG users.  Helping out on TMG conferences allows you to cultivate future Second Site users.  Supplying your very useful TMG Utility could also well be viewed as shrewd advertisement.


It is true that I do not know the exact gross sales from Second Site.  But I sold almost 300 copies of a clearly inferior product, Progenitor 2, in an era when computers were much more limited and before there was a mature internet.  It is hard for me to believe that you haven't sold many more copies of Second Site.  If I am wrong, then let me know what the gross sales actually amounted to and, if they are less, I will openly apologize to you  - and perhaps offer you some advice on how to market Second Site.

#49 TPG

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 06:07 AM

WitnessTMG Program


Builds witness entries from TMG propritary project files and includes them in a compatible TMG generated GEDCOM file.


This version of "witnessTMG" is the same program that was first announced on the Rootsweb TMG forum.  It has been revised to work with TMG version 8 or 9 files.


The program asks that the TMG project be identified in the form of the core " . . . __.PJC" file of the project. It also asks for the input GEDCOM file to be identified. After the program processes and inserts the witness data, a new GEDCOM file is left in the program's folder as "newGEDCOM.ged".  For reference purposes, the newly generated WITNESS statements are collected in a file named witnessOut.txt, stored in the same folder.


The generated witness statements are inserted as:


2 TYPE Witness: [role] in [eventtype] for [Prin1] and [Prin2] **

2 DATE [date]*

2 PLACE [place]*


* entry is omitted when [date] or [place] is blank.

** either or both [prin1] and [prin2] is omitted when blank.


"witnessTMG" was originally developed to use gedcoms produced by some earlier versions of TMG.  It was then revised to handle gedcoms produced by TMG Version 8.  Tom Holden, another contributor to this forum, has successfully tested it with gedcoms produced by TMG version 9.


You may download the witnessTMG package via www.crestline-enterprises.com/witnessTMG.  The WitnessTMG package is in the form of a zip file, whose only content is the "WitnessTMG.exe" program.  One should extract the program from the zipped package and store in a convenient folder.  You can run it from this folder, which becomes the folder containing the output "newGEDCOM.ged".  


IMPORTANT NOTE: In order for the WitnessTMG Program to be able to read the internal files of The Master Genealogist, one must first install the Microsoft VFPOLEDB facility before installing the WitnessTMG Program.  This can be gotten from: http://www.microsoft...s.aspx?id=14839  I believe that one may choose either of the relevant installers to download, although I have used VFPOLEDBSetup.msi. After the VFPOLEDB facility has been installed, one may install the WitnessTMG Program. All that is strictly required is that the GEDCOM file have the same numbering conventions of the TMG file and that the TMG file include all individuals that occur in the GEDCOM file. This requirement is most easily satisfied if the TMG project is the project file itself used to generate the GEDCOM file or is a superset of that project file.



#50 walm

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 10:46 PM

This discussion is very disappointing and defeatest.
Why are we giving up so quickly!

From my point of view, it's imperative that this product is not allowed to become part of the history we are recording.  Surely such a top rated product needs to extend beyond the life of anyone. This product is a monument to the man who created it. It needs to be sold to someone who can continue the program. Alternative maybe the users could form a co-operative or something and employ developers?

Look forward to positive outcomes of the future.


#51 John Cardinal

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 09:24 AM

In your post directed at me, you snidely said: "Please describe any free software you supplied that helps TMG users."



I was snide because you used a disagreement about whether users should upgrade to support the business or not to state that (a) I had not contributed financially to WG and (b) that I should donate income I received as a result of Second Site sales to WG. You were wrong about both: I have contributed to WG and there is no good reason for me to donate income from SS to WG.


Regarding my activities at conferences, you assume I have ulterior motives and miss (or ignore) the important facts. WG requested my presence. Whether it was good advertising for SS is completely irrelevant. WG needed help, asked me for it, and got it. When discussing how I have supported WG, it's hard to believe you cast that as a selfish act. You were not there, but you assume I was hawking my products. Perhaps that is what you would do, but it is not what I did. I focused on what visitors requested, and that was usually information about TMG (from non-users), or advice about particular issues/challenges with TMG (from users). SS came up rarely except when existing SS customers asked me questions.


Regarding TMG Utility, again you assume a less-than-honorable motivation, and again, you lack the facts. The first version of TMG Utility was released three years before Second Site and was already viewed as a valuable tool for TMG users. My other free program for TMG users is On This Day, and it was also released long before Second Site.


With regards to Second Site income, you can ask all you want, and you can make estimates all you want, but I am not going to give you the sales info. It's none of your business. I notice that you focus on the income from SS but did not ask how many man-years of effort went into design, development, documentation, testing, beta tester recruiting/communication, sales support, and technical support. Nor did you ask about the other costs of doing business such as accounting, banking, credit card fees, etc. If you think I am getting rich off SS, I welcome you to create a competitive product and make a grab for the money.


Lastly, you wrote that my actions were not sufficient to save WG. That is not my responsibility. It's an indicator of your flawed thought process that you would suggest that it is.

#52 LeMans844

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 11:36 PM

Totally agree with Wal.

Is there any movement in this direction?



#53 mikey159

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 10:07 AM


I am in the same boat, shouldn't the upgrade prices be reduced since there is only six months of support left on a discontinued product ?


I hope that there is no discount offered. TMG users who didn't upgrade are a leading cause of the demise of TMG, and it seems plain wrong to reward that behavior now that WG has decided to discontinue it.



The only thing I would say is I agree IF I can use it on multiple pc's after it officially ends. Otherwise buying a dead product isn't the best idea, especially at full price. I have upgraded on one pc, but have had NO LUCK WHATSOEVER upgrading to the latest version on any other pc. I have one pc that just WILL NOT upgrade to version 8, and version 9 won't even run past the initital few screens. I am using it on my 3rd pc because the first wouldn't work. This made it VERY difficult for me to decide to even try version 9. I would LOVE to be able to use it on all of my pc's, I have 3 I use on a daily basis and do genealogy on each of them. I have done the email support thing but never get to the point where they can provide any assistance, ie the program coming up and actually running.

#54 BruceB

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 04:54 PM

Hi All:

I along with I think most of the users of TMG was shocked when I received Bob's anouncement.

I do wish Bob a very happy retirement and good health to be able to enjoy his well deserved rest after 25 years of working on TMG.


It is my hope that someone with Bob's drive and experience with programming will make him an offer to purchase and continue this leader in genealogy software.


I have looked around many times at other software - but IMO there is nothing out there that actually competes with the power and flexability of TMG.


I have never had an issue with the cost of this quality product and have been using since version 4.  Back then you had to purchase and wait until the box with CD and manual arrived in the mail.

(I still have my original version 4 with CD's and manual - using version 9 now!!)


Good luck to you Bob and thank you.


I intend to continue to use TMG for a long time yet.

#55 John Cardinal

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Posted 17 August 2014 - 06:39 AM

Mikey159, your TMG license includes permission to run TMG on multiple computers. I forget the details. The technical problems are solvable. Some users have reported problems using the upgrade process starting within TMG, and the solution is to start over and install using the full installer that one can download from the TMG site. If you have not done so already, start a separate thread that describes the issues on one PC. (It's best to focus on one PC at a time to reduce the chances of miscommunication.)

#56 Virginia Blakelock

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Posted 17 August 2014 - 10:02 AM



If as John suggests, you post your problems in a new topic in the v9 forum, I am optimistic a resolution can be found.  Include the operating system of each computer and which TMG version you are installing on it.


We are seeing an increasing number of problems with TMG that are related to other programs running at the same time.  I recommend installing in the TMG default locations, while you are off line, with no other programs running, most particularly Dropbox and similar cloud services as well as anti-virus software.   Note also that TMG project files should never be synced with a cloud service or backup program; serious damage to the project could result.


I also suggest that instead of using the Update option for v9.03, you uninstall the present version from the Control Panel and download and install the full trial version (v9.03).  With the trial version, rightclick on the download file and run as Administrator.  You do not need to run as Admin after that.



Win7 Professional x64

#57 nbradley


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Posted 18 August 2014 - 10:08 PM

I'm saddened that John Cardinal had to go to the lengths that he did to respond to some very uncalled for comments on this forum.


In my view the TMG community has benefited greatly from John's help.


As a long term Second Site user and a beneficiary of John's help I would like to comment :-


- it is an amazing product

- the small amount that John charges for it is fantastic value for money.

- given the amount of support that John gives to his user community, I suspect that his income per hour would be very small

- I would be happy to pay quite a bit more

Cheers, Neil
Western Australia

#58 SusanT

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 09:56 AM

Like Sandy, I have been a longtime user of TMG dating back to the DOS days and the CompuServe days. I haven't done much research genealogy-wise for over a year now. and I haven't been on this site for sometime. I sure hated reading this forum topic today that TMG will come to an end. It will be sorely missed. In the past have tried other genealogy db, but none matched the capabilities of this program. I will certainly use Version 9 until the bitter end and then no doubt years after that.


I did buy TMG version 8 back in January of this year. About a month or so later got an e-mail saying I was entitled to a free upgrade to version 9.  I didn't download V9 until a couple of days ago. I unlocked it with the supplied code and all went well on importing the Version 8 backup, etc.... Now have found everyday since, been 2 days, I have to unlock it the first time it is accessed that day. If I don't unlock it, it says it is a trial version and after unlocking up comes a successfully unlocked notice. I'll need to send in a trouble message to support unless someone here has a quick answer.


--- Susan

#59 Jim Byram

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 10:03 AM

If you are running Windows 8 or later, the operating system is removing the registration information.


You need to run TMG once as administrator (see below) and enter the registration information, then exit. Now you can run TMG normally without needing to unlock.


Select the TMG shortcut, right-click, and select 'Run as administrator'.

#60 mikey159

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 01:50 PM

I have been running TMG on my main pc ever since at least 1997. I have upgraded pc's and operating systems and even hardware over the years and am now running Win7 64bit Ultimate on every pc. I have tried working thru email but the problem is mine NEVER loads, so getting tech support from Dorothy that says 'turn off the messages' is NOT helpful!! I already did the delete, download the trial version, check the registry, start the install process and it starts but then get to some point and never does another thing for over 10 hours before I said to heck with it and shut the pc down and walked away! This was on BOTH versions 8 and 9, THAT is why I was VERY hestitant about paying to upgrade, if it doesn't work for me WHY do it?!! I finally DID pay because I got version 8 to work on a laptop..WOOHOO!! I then saw version 9 and went thru the SAME process on my main desktop as before and..pflat...NOTHING!! Exact same thing, starts loading, NOTHING else is runing on my pc and it just stops mid stream and does NOTHING else! I then took it to my laptop and it worked, so after almsot 30 days I paid to upgrade. I took the file to my 3rd pc and NOTHING! I took the info to my dads house, he also runs Win7 64 bit ultimate and downloaded Version 8 from the website, NOTHING GOING the EXACT same problem!! He wants a copy of my work but I can't share it with him anymore!! Version 7 worked on BOTH of our pc with no problem. He has purchased FTM and has asked me to bring my data to his house in a format he can use. What do I tell him? It will work but.....?!! I believe THAT is why people aren't buying the software...sometimes it doesn't even load!! Don't get me wrong I LOVE TMG, as long as it works I WILL continue to buy it, but if it doesn't work on EVERY pc I need it to that is NOT working. Asking for Tech Support to LOAD a program on a pc that is fully capable, a quad core with 16gb of ram and a high end video card, should NOT be required!! Not being able to load it on this dekstop has itself put one heck of a crimp on my research, if I can't use the pc in the room where all my data and books are it is NOT helpful!!


And there is no point in starting a new thread, as of December all you guys will be gone and any future assistance will be non existant, so loading it on my next pc will either work or not, if not I am done, if it does I will continue using TMG until I can find a replacement that works for me. My databse is over 15k people, small compared to alot of you, but to me it is ALOT of work and I do NOT want to have to reenter it all AGAIN!! I did that when my last program went out of business and started using TMG, The Family Edge was great, but when it quit TMG was there for me, now it too is going away. I guess we are ALL headed to the generic big company supported software or else go thru this again and again!

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